[EM] (2): UK 'post mortem', 2nd discussion between Steve and Fred Gohlke

Alexander Praetorius citizen at serapath.de
Sun Jul 5 08:07:36 PDT 2015

On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Fred Gohlke <fredgohlke at verizon.net> wrote:

> Good Morning, Alexander
> re: Thats the "bottom-up-process" which only works if
>     people start to get organized in order to be able
>     to act collaboratively in constructive ways.
> Your point that people must "act collaboratively in constructive ways" is
> both accurate and vital.  The question is how to get them organized to do
> that.  Your suggestion, "If everyone would start to run their "private
> life" as if they would run a business ...", will not happen because humans
> are not lemmings.  Can we come up with a better approach?

Exactly thats the reason why the trend will be to run one's private life as
a business and get organized, because: "People are not lemmings".
Currently most people ARE LEMMINGS (sometimes labeled "zombies") who
blindly follow what employers tell them, because they fail to see the big
picture of what their corporation is doing in society. If people would
start to collaborate as independent "self employed" freelancers, they need
to reflect WAY MORE - so they are way less likely to become lemmings.

> re:  ... everything that needs some kind of "orchestration
>      effort" will always be done by politicians or managers
>      in corporations, because "private individuals" are not
>      capable of that degree of orchestration.
> That's a good observation.  It's close enough to accurate to show why
> events like those in Frome, U.K. (that started this discussion) are so
> rare.  Have you seen the news report of how the people of Frome replaced
> all the party politicians in their town council with independents?  It is
> an inspiring case that shows a community *can* rally to support a good
> idea.  You'll find it at:
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/22/flatpack-democracy-peoples-republic-of-frome?CMP=share_btn_fb
> When you read it, I wonder if you would be good enough to describe any
> weak points in what they have accomplished.  My concern is how they can
> ensure that future candidates for town council will also be independent.
> Will IfF not become a party itself?  How can that be avoided?  How can the
> town council update their electoral process to ensure that every member of
> the community can participate in the political process to the full extent
> of each individual's desire and ability?

I think they will become "some kind of party", by the fact that those
people "work" together on a daily basis and they get to know each other and
they synchronize their thoughts over time, while people in every day life
engage in other things and some might start to not be strongly in touch
with whomever they support.
The best approach would be to upgrade all the things with digital
technology - because if you look beyond "technology", what it is is just an
opportunity of increased connectedness of everyone with everyone else at
all times, having lightning fast communication (maybe even semi-automated),
so that people can participate in a more self employed way.

> Fred Gohlke
> ----
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*Everything I have written above is my personal experience/opinion on
things, no matter what kinds of words i did use(e.g. "always", "never",
"impossible", "waste of time", ....).*

*Such extreme words only do indicate, that my experience/opinion on
something is very strong and i currently cannot imagine that there are
other possibilities until new arguments/insights/whatever open my eyes that
there are alternative perspectives too :-)Please do not feel discouraged to
challenge my opinion if you have a different one.*

*Best Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen*
Alexander Praetorius
Bornemannstrasse 17
D - 60599 Frankfurt am Main
*[skype] *alexander.praetorius
*[mail] *citizen at serapath.de <alexander.praetorius at serapath.de>
*[web] *http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Benutzer:Serapath
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