[EM] A design flaw in the electoral system

[Michael Allan]

Dear Fred,

> That is specious.  The phrases "in my terminology" and "in my terms"
> may have significance for you but they do not make your definition
> 'technically' correct.  I'm attaching definitions of the terms
> 'vote', 'voter' and 'ballot', below, for whatever value you may find
> in them.

In order to avoid confusion, I may have to substitute "actual voter",
meaning one who is actually voting.  OK.

> The assertion that the value of a vote is 'exactly zero' is equally
> distressing.  It is based on the assumption that changing the input
> to a completed process will not alter the result of the process.
> The arguments in support of the assumption are abstruse.

Some misunderstanding, because I did not assume that.  Theory claims a
value of zero and I measure a value of zero.

Again, I believe you mean the assumptions of experimental science in
general, not my own in particular.

> You correctly assert that, in a democracy, an electoral process that
> provides no means for public participation in the decision making
> process is flawed.  The open question is how to resolve that issue.
> We would do well to apply our intellect to that thorny problem.

You will agree it usually helps to identify the cause of the problem.
Why the lack of public participation?  I ask a similar question here:
http://www.nycga.net/groups/vision-and-goals/forum/topic/what-is-the-cause-of-these-problems/

-- 
Michael Allan

Toronto, +1 416-699-9528
http://zelea.com/


Fred Gohlke wrote:
> Good Afternoon, Michael
> 
> As I was studying your October 29th 'expanded outline' so I could 
> comment on it, I read your later responses.  This led to an extensive 
> review of the posts regarding "A structural fault in society owing to a 
> design flaw in the electoral system" going back to the first of October. 
>   The result was unsatisfactory.
> 
> For example, on October 23rd, I wrote:
> 
>  > It appears the (i.e., your) point is that, at the moment a
>  > ballot is cast, the person that casts the ballot ceases to be
>  > a voter.  That is only true as to future issues which may come
>  > before the voters.  It is untrue as to the issue on which the
>  > ballot was cast.
> 
> On October 29th, you responded:
> 
>  > Technically it is always true I think, or at least in my
>  > terminology.  The elector is technically a "voter" while in
>  > possession of the ballot (in the act of voting) and not at
>  > other times.  The distinction is crucial to the thesis, because
>  > it can be difficult to behave like a voter and engage in social
>  > decision making without the support of a concrete ballot
>  > (abstract voting).
>  >
>  > You are speaking of an "elector" in my terms (one who has a
>  > right to vote) and not an actual voter.
> 
> That is specious.  The phrases "in my terminology" and "in my terms" may 
> have significance for you but they do not make your definition 
> 'technically' correct.  I'm attaching definitions of the terms 'vote', 
> 'voter' and 'ballot', below, for whatever value you may find in them.
> 
> The assertion that the value of a vote is 'exactly zero' is equally 
> distressing.  It is based on the assumption that changing the input to a 
> completed process will not alter the result of the process.  The 
> arguments in support of the assumption are abstruse.
> 
> The discouraging part of this dissension (for me) is that you opened 
> discussion of a vital issue, one that is seldom broached on this site. 
> It is a matter that vitally concerns us all, and anything that detracts 
> from investigation of the primary point is distressing.
> 
> You correctly assert that, in a democracy, an electoral process that 
> provides no means for public participation in the decision making 
> process is flawed.  The open question is how to resolve that issue.  We 
> would do well to apply our intellect to that thorny problem.
> 
> Fred Gohlke
> 
> 
> American English and British English Definitions provided by
> Macmillan Dictionary:
> 
> 
> Quick definitions from Macmillan (vote)
> 
> verb
>  > to formally express an opinion by choosing between two or
>    more issues, people, etc.
>  > to show your choice of a person or an issue in an election
>  > to choose something or someone to win a prize or an honor
>  > to suggest what you would like to do in a particular situation
> 
> noun
>  > the formal expression of a choice between two or more issues,
>    people, etc.
>  > an occasion when people formally choose between two or more
>    issues, people, etc. in an election
>  > the total number of votes made in an election
> 
> 
> Quick definitions from Macmillan (voter)
> 
> noun
>  > someone who votes in an election
> 
> 
> Quick definitions from Macmillan (ballot)
> 
> noun
>  > the process of voting secretly to choose a candidate in an
>    election or express an opinion about an issue
>  > the total number of votes recorded in an election
>  > a piece of paper that you write your vote on
> 
> verb
>  > to ask people to vote in order to decide an issue
>  > to vote in order to decide an issue
> 
> 
> Definitions provided by WordNet:
> 
> Quick definitions from WordNet (vote)
> 
>  > noun:  the opinion of a group as determined by voting ("They
>           put the question to a vote")
>  > noun:  a choice that is made by voting ("There were only 17
>           votes in favor of the motion")
>  > noun:  the total number of votes cast ("They are hoping for a
>           large vote")
>  > noun:  a body of voters who have the same interests ("He failed
>           to get the Black vote")
>  > noun:  a legal right guaranteed by the 15th amendment to the US
>           constitution; guaranteed to women by the 19th amendment
>           ("American women got the vote in 1920")
>  > verb:  express one's preference for a candidate or for a
>           measure or resolution; cast a vote ("He voted for the
>           motion")
>  > verb:  bring into existence or make available by vote ("They
>           voted aid for the underdeveloped countries in Asia")
>  > verb:  express a choice or opinion ("I vote that we all go
>           home")
>  > verb:  express one's choice or preference by vote ("Vote the
>           Democratic ticket")
>  > verb:  be guided by in voting ("Vote one's conscience")
> 
> 
> Quick definitions from WordNet (voter)
> 
>  > noun:  a citizen who has a legal right to vote
> 
> 
> Quick definitions from WordNet (ballot)
> 
>  > noun:  a document listing the alternatives that is used in
>           voting
>  > noun:  a choice that is made by voting
> 
>  > verb:  vote by ballot ("The voters were balloting in this
>           state")