[EM] Poll Ballot, from Richard

Thu Jul 18 14:00:51 PDT 2024

On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 23:15 Chris Benham <cbenhamau at yahoo.com.au> wrote:

I assume in the party-PR poll we are just supposed to give our favourite.
> Is that correct?
>

Yes, just indicate favorite party.
———
For a real public political election by RCV,  sure. I’d change my last name
to Aardvark.

What about just dividing that person’s vote equally among all those s/he
equal-ranks?

Disadvantages to what the voter might have wanted, but that rule would be
stated in advance.

Better than throwing the ballot out.

>
> On 18/07/2024 3:01 pm, Michael Ossipoff wrote:
>
>
> I forgot to mention: RCV & STV don’t allow equa-ranking (though Condorcet
> does).
>
> However I wouldn’t call an RCV or STV ballot “spoiled” if it has
> equal-ranking. I’d instead just rank any equal-ranked candidates, at some
> particular rank-position, *in alphabetical-order by last-name*
>
> I figure the voter won’t mind, because he doesn’t have any preference
> among them.
>
> Is that okay?
>
> Of course, for the RP(wv) count your equal-ranked candidates will be
> counted as equal-ranked, because equal-ranking is permissible in Condorcet.
>
> Additional answers inline below:
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 16:55 Richard, the VoteFair guy <
> electionmethods at votefair.org> wrote:
>
>> Michael, here is my ballot.
>>
>> You can translate this into your desired ballot format.
>>
>> If you claim you need a full ranking, then I choose not to vote in this
>> poll.  That's because I don't have time to research unfamiliar
>> candidates and unfamiliar parties.
>>
>> In the candidate poll my ballot is that I rank Biden as the only
>> "approved" candidate
>
>
> Okay.
>
>
> -- even though I wish he would drop out and
>> transfer his delegate votes to nearly anyone.
>>
>> I rank Trump at the bottom of the candidate list, below all the other
>> candidates
>
>
> Okay.
>
> because he wants to destroy democracy, destroy the U.S.
>> economy as a favor to Putin, and destroy the U.S. military as another
>> favor to Putin.
>
>
> Yes, The Republican in general, & Trump in particular, always finishes
> last, in every Condorcet or STAR poll that includes the Republocratic
> candidates & the Progressive candidates.
>
> (In this election-year, Biden is winning the CIVS poll “2024 presidential
> election”. Likewise in a few STAR polls. …because this year, some people
> feel a desperate need to portray Biden winnable, to try to make people vote
> for him in November. But ordinarily the top-finisher & CW is Jill or
> Bernie…well alright, sometimes a Libertarian. Never, ever, is the
> Republican anywhere but bottom.)
>
> …& yet, people actually believe that Jill Stein couldn’t beat him. Usually
> she or Bernie is CW, too-finisher in those polls.
>
> So, the usual top-finisher can’t beat the always bottom-finisher?
>
> Wow! What are people smoking?
>
> Hello? The always-bottom-finisher isn’t a threat if we all vote for the
> (same) candidate whom we actually all like.
>
> Forget “The-Lesser-Evil” & “The-Two-Choices”.
>
> In Burlington Alaska, it was clearly shown that the median-voters prefer
> the more progressive candidates. …in confirmation of those poll-results.
>
> Lesser-evils voters worry too much!!!
>
>
>
>>
>> In between I rank all the other candidates at the same preference level,
>> and not worth researching to rank them because they lack high-level
>> executive experience and expertise.
>
>
> Okay. As I mentioned, in RCV & STV, it will be necessary to for the count
> to rank those equal-ranked candidates in alphabetical-order. Is that okay?
>
>>
>>
>> In the party poll, I rank the Democratic party as the only "approved"
>> party because it's the only party offering a viable candidate.
>
>
> Okay. The Democrat Party is your party vote, for the Party-PR count.
>
>
> Though it would be improper for me to comment on your ballot, there’s no
> rule that says I can’t comment on political-statements:
>
> See above about the results of Condorcet & STAR polls, & what Burlington &
> Alaska showed about the preference of median-voters.
>
> Most people say (in answer to other polls) that they’re tired of
> “The-Two-Choices”, & say they want different parties.
>
> So yes the parties other than the Republocratic Party aren’t “viable”,
> because only the people want them. :-)
>
> Don’t let the TV tell you what or who is or isn’t “viable”.
>
> Vote honestly in November, for what we all want.  …& certainly not for
> someone none of us want, for whom we’d have to hold our nose.
>
> If you’re holding your nose, reconsider your vote.
>
>
>
>>
>> Under current circumstances I rank the Republican party at the bottom of
>> the list, below all other parties.  That's because they are not offering
>> a candidate who wants to preserve fair elections, protect the U.S.
>> against its enemies, and improve the economy.  As another flaw, the new
>> Republican party platform claims the presidential election will not be
>> fair if the Republican candidate doesn't win the presidential election.
>
>
> Agreed. Few people want the Republicans. They’d never win an election with
> honest voting & honest count.
>
>>
>>
>> In case you didn't notice the above words "only approved party," I'll
>> clarify that all the parties other than the Democratic party are
>> "unapproved" because they do not offer viable candidates.
>
>
> Look what the Democrats offer :-)
>
> That’s viable?
>
> ..even though most people say they don’t want them?
>
> Are the Democrats more viable than the candidates who usually win the
> Condorcet & STAR polls that include the Republocrats & the Progressives?
>
>>
>>
>> Apparently, in this poll, you want me to point to one party as the one I
>> like.  It's "none of the above."  That's because I dislike all current
>> U.S. political parties.  Yes, I'm willing to "throw away" this vote to
>> express this preference
>
>
> Okay. Done. Your ballot doesn’t cast a vote in the Party-PR balloting.
>
> You dislike all current parties? Have you read all of their platforms? If
> not, how do you know you dislike them? What do you dislike about the
> *policies* offered by some of the “3rd-parties” that you’ve heard of?
>
> I’m not trying to get you to change your vote. That would be improper. Of
> course your ballot will be counted exactly as you said.
>
> I’m merely participating in the political-discussion.
>
>>
>>
>> Clarification:  I register with either the Republican or Democratic
>> party so I can vote in the primary elections of one or the other of the
>> two parties that supply viable nominees.
>
>
> The two parties that none of us want are the only viable ones?
>
>
>
>
>
>> I switch between those two
>> parties periodically.  I dislike them both.
>
>
> Yes! We all do!
>
> Switch between them?
>
> Switch out of them!
>
> I also dislike all third
>> parties.
>
>
> All of them? Regarding the main ones you’ve heard of, which of their
> platform-policies do you dislike?
>
>>
>>
>> My dislike of existing political parties is why I promote
>> election-method reform!
>
>
> Yes, that’s why we’re all here! Dislike of The Two Choices.  …which
> obviously are NOT the two choices.
>
> But which platform-policy of the main other parties that you’ve heard of
> do you dislike?
>
>
> If U.S. election reforms are well-designed,
>> then in the future at least one U.S. party will be motivated to offer
>> wise problem-solving leaders instead of whatever you want to call their
>> current nominees.
>
>
> Regarding the platform-policies & leaders of the parties you’ve heard of,
> other than the Democrats & Republicans—what about them isn’t wise,
> problem-solving?
>
> Michael Ossipoff
>
>>
>>
>> Richard Fobes
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/16/2024 9:24 PM, Michael Ossipoff wrote:
>> > One reason for my voting 1st is to demonstrate what I mean by the
>> > voting-instructions:
>>
>> ...
>> ----
>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list
>> info
>>
>
> ----
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>
> ----
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>
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