[EM] Poll Ballot, from Richard

Thu Jul 18 10:06:41 PDT 2024

If Biden loses Rhode Island, we'll have far bigger problems to worry about
than arguing about electoral reform on the internet.

Would those be the "Gore suckers" who only lost the presidency by 537 votes
because roughly 97,000 voted Green?

On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 1:04 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> How would I  know what will happen in your state, whatever it is.
>
> Maybe you’ll succeed there, or maybe you’ll just split the vote & lose.
>
> But even if Biden wins *in your state* that doesn’t mean you & your state
> aren’t splitting the non-Trump vote & giving the overall win to Trump.
>
> But suit yourself.
>
> Don’t be so overconfident. It could be a repeat of the Gore suckers in
> 2000.
>
> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 05:31 Michael Garman <
> michael.garman at rankthevote.us> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Mmm yes I’m going to be the one “splitting the vote” when Biden wins my
>> state in a landslide, genius.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 5:22 AM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, I can’t control your voting in November.
>>>
>>> You’re going to vote for Biden—or obediently for whomever the DNC says.
>>>
>>> Trump will win because you insist on splitting the vote.
>>>
>>> …& when Trump wins, don’t forget to congratulate yourself for achieving
>>> that by your dishonest hold-your-nose sucker voting.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 02:01 Michael Garman <
>>> michael.garman at rankthevote.us> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And how do you intend to make that happen?
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 4:43 AM Michael Ossipoff <
>>>> email9648742 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My magic plan is honest voting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not splitting the non-Trump between honest voters & giveaway-sucker
>>>>> voters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not having a high percentage of us throw their vote away on someone
>>>>> none of us want.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you see the lunacy of most of the voters holding their nose &
>>>>> voting for someone that none of us want?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 01:15 Michael Garman <
>>>>> michael.garman at rankthevote.us> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What’s your magic plan to make a third party candidate win in 2024? A
>>>>>> plan that doesn’t rely on unrepresentative Internet alternative method
>>>>>> polls.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 1:43 AM Michael Ossipoff <
>>>>>> email9648742 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 22:16 John T Whelan <
>>>>>>> john.whelan at astro.rit.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Richard gets at the fundamental problem with polls like this:
>>>>>>>> anyone willing to run for President as a third party candidate in the
>>>>>>>> current political climate under the current electoral system has shown a
>>>>>>>> lack of judgement and responsibility which makes them an unacceptable
>>>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, it just means they aren’t lesser-evil suckers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The-Two-Choices are for the suckers who believe whatever ther TV
>>>>>>> tells them
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> e.g. the bizarre looney belief that two candidates & parties that
>>>>>>> none of us want could be The-Two-Choices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, it would be better to have a better electoral system. That’s
>>>>>>> why we’re all here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But that doesn’t mean we have to continue to be such complete
>>>>>>> suckers now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Ossipoff
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>> *From:* Election-Methods <
>>>>>>>> election-methods-bounces at lists.electorama.com> on behalf of
>>>>>>>> Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 18, 2024 4:35:20 AM
>>>>>>>> *To:* Richard, the VoteFair guy <electionmethods at votefair.org>
>>>>>>>> *Cc:* election-methods at lists.electorama.com <
>>>>>>>> election-methods at lists.electorama.com>
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [EM] Poll Ballot, from Richard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CAUTION: This message from outside RIT could not be authenticated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you do not recognize the email address of the person who sent
>>>>>>>> the email, do not click on links, open attachments, or repond to the
>>>>>>>> message.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please see article KB0042035 at help.rit.edu or contact the RIT
>>>>>>>> Service Center at 585-475-5000 for additional information.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 16:55 Richard, the VoteFair guy <
>>>>>>>> electionmethods at votefair.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michael, here is my ballot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you claim you need a full ranking, then I choose not to vote in
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> poll.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Richard—
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ballot recorded.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, neither RP(wv), nor RCV, nor STV requires a full ranking. So
>>>>>>>> your ballot is perfectly technically valid & complete, as-is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's because I don't have time to research unfamiliar
>>>>>>>>> candidates and unfamiliar parties.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course, that’s a good reason to vote a short ranking or a
>>>>>>>> 1-candidate approval.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I & others voted that way in the voting-systems poll.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It would probably be as inappropriate as hell for the poll proposer
>>>>>>>> & conductor to comment on someone’s ballot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But surely it would be okay for anyone here to reply to someone
>>>>>>>> else’s political comments, or evaluations of candidates & parties.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Such discussion is necessary, & there’s an understanding here that
>>>>>>>> “electioneering” is part of polling…or at least should be permissible. I
>>>>>>>> believe that it’s more than permissible: Discussion about why we vote as we
>>>>>>>> do, & the expression of contrary opinions, reactions or choices, are
>>>>>>>> essential.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But it probably wouldn’t be appropriate in the “official” reply
>>>>>>>> that acknowledges your ballot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So I’ll reply in a separate post, immediately after this one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the candidate poll my ballot is that I rank Biden as the only
>>>>>>>>> "approved" candidate -- even though I wish he would drop out and
>>>>>>>>> transfer his delegate votes to nearly anyone.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I rank Trump at the bottom of the candidate list, below all the
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> candidates, because he wants to destroy democracy, destroy the
>>>>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>>>> economy as a favor to Putin, and destroy the U.S. military as
>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>> favor to Putin.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In between I rank all the other candidates at the same preference
>>>>>>>>> level,
>>>>>>>>> and not worth researching to rank them because they lack
>>>>>>>>> high-level
>>>>>>>>> executive experience and expertise.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the party poll, I rank the Democratic party as the only
>>>>>>>>> "approved"
>>>>>>>>> party because it's the only party offering a viable candidate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Under current circumstances I rank the Republican party at the
>>>>>>>>> bottom of
>>>>>>>>> the list, below all other parties.  That's because they are not
>>>>>>>>> offering
>>>>>>>>> a candidate who wants to preserve fair elections, protect the U.S.
>>>>>>>>> against its enemies, and improve the economy.  As another flaw,
>>>>>>>>> the new
>>>>>>>>> Republican party platform claims the presidential election will
>>>>>>>>> not be
>>>>>>>>> fair if the Republican candidate doesn't win the presidential
>>>>>>>>> election.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In case you didn't notice the above words "only approved party,"
>>>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>>> clarify that all the parties other than the Democratic party are
>>>>>>>>> "unapproved" because they do not offer viable candidates.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apparently, in this poll, you want me to point to one party as the
>>>>>>>>> one I
>>>>>>>>> like.  It's "none of the above."  That's because I dislike all
>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>> U.S. political parties.  Yes, I'm willing to "throw away" this
>>>>>>>>> vote to
>>>>>>>>> express this preference.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Clarification:  I register with either the Republican or
>>>>>>>>> Democratic
>>>>>>>>> party so I can vote in the primary elections of one or the other
>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>> two parties that supply viable nominees.  I switch between those
>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>> parties periodically.  I dislike them both.  I also dislike all
>>>>>>>>> third
>>>>>>>>> parties.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My dislike of existing political parties is why I promote
>>>>>>>>> election-method reform!  If U.S. election reforms are
>>>>>>>>> well-designed,
>>>>>>>>> then in the future at least one U.S. party will be motivated to
>>>>>>>>> offer
>>>>>>>>> wise problem-solving leaders instead of whatever you want to call
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> current nominees.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Richard Fobes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 7/16/2024 9:24 PM, Michael Ossipoff wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > One reason for my voting 1st is to demonstrate what I mean by
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> > voting-instructions:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for
>>>>>>>>> list info
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for
>>>>>>> list info
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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