[EM] Poll Ballot, from Richard

[Richard, the VoteFair guy]

On 7/18/2024 10:06 AM, Michael Garman wrote:
 > Would those be the "Gore suckers" who only lost the presidency by 537
 > votes because roughly 97,000 voted Green?

Michael, thank you for this reply to Michael's comment (copied below). 
It's much better worded than what came to my mind.

My view is that there is no such thing as a "spoiler candidate."

Instead it's called "vote splitting."  It's a flaw in some vote-counting 
methods.  It's not a flaw in how voters vote.  And it's not a flaw in 
who chooses to enter or exit the contest.

Richard Fobes


On 7/18/2024 10:06 AM, Michael Garman wrote:
> If Biden loses Rhode Island, we'll have far bigger problems to worry 
> about than arguing about electoral reform on the internet.
> 
> Would those be the "Gore suckers" who only lost the presidency by 537 
> votes because roughly 97,000 voted Green?
> 
> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 1:04 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:email9648742 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     How would I  know what will happen in your state, whatever it is.
> 
>     Maybe you’ll succeed there, or maybe you’ll just split the vote & lose.
> 
>     But even if Biden wins *in your state* that doesn’t mean you & your
>     state aren’t splitting the non-Trump vote & giving the overall win
>     to Trump.
> 
>     But suit yourself.
> 
>     Don’t be so overconfident. It could be a repeat of the Gore suckers
>     in 2000.
> 
>     On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 05:31 Michael Garman
>     <michael.garman at rankthevote.us
>     <mailto:michael.garman at rankthevote.us>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>         Mmm yes I’m going to be the one “splitting the vote” when Biden
>         wins my state in a landslide, genius.
> 
> 
> 
>         On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 5:22 AM Michael Ossipoff
>         <email9648742 at gmail.com <mailto:email9648742 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
>             Sorry, I can’t control your voting in November.
> 
>             You’re going to vote for Biden—or obediently for whomever
>             the DNC says.
> 
>             Trump will win because you insist on splitting the vote.
> 
>             …& when Trump wins, don’t forget to congratulate yourself
>             for achieving that by your dishonest hold-your-nose sucker
>             voting.
> 
> 
>             On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 02:01 Michael Garman
>             <michael.garman at rankthevote.us
>             <mailto:michael.garman at rankthevote.us>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>                 And how do you intend to make that happen?
> 
> 
>                 On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 4:43 AM Michael Ossipoff
>                 <email9648742 at gmail.com <mailto:email9648742 at gmail.com>>
>                 wrote:
> 
>                     My magic plan is honest voting.
> 
>                     Not splitting the non-Trump between honest voters &
>                     giveaway-sucker voters.
> 
>                     Not having a high percentage of us throw their vote
>                     away on someone none of us want.
> 
>                     Do you see the lunacy of most of the voters holding
>                     their nose & voting for someone that none of us want?
> 
>                     On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 01:15 Michael Garman
>                     <michael.garman at rankthevote.us
>                     <mailto:michael.garman at rankthevote.us>> wrote:
> 
> 
>                         What’s your magic plan to make a third party
>                         candidate win in 2024? A plan that doesn’t rely
>                         on unrepresentative Internet alternative method
>                         polls.
> 
> 
>                         On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 1:43 AM Michael Ossipoff
>                         <email9648742 at gmail.com
>                         <mailto:email9648742 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>                             On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 22:16 John T Whelan
>                             <john.whelan at astro.rit.edu
>                             <mailto:john.whelan at astro.rit.edu>> wrote:
> 
>                                 Richard gets at the fundamental problem
>                                 with polls like this: anyone willing to
>                                 run for President as a third party
>                                 candidate in the current political
>                                 climate under the current electoral
>                                 system has shown a lack of judgement and
>                                 responsibility which makes them an
>                                 unacceptable choice. 
> 
> 
>                             No, it just means they aren’t lesser-evil
>                             suckers.
> 
>                             The-Two-Choices are for the suckers who
>                             believe whatever ther TV tells them
> 
>                             e.g. the bizarre looney belief that two
>                             candidates & parties that none of us want
>                             could be The-Two-Choices.
> 
>                             Yes, it would be better to have a better
>                             electoral system. That’s why we’re all here.
> 
>                             But that doesn’t mean we have to continue to
>                             be such complete suckers now.
> 
>                             Michael Ossipoff
> 
> 
> 
> 
>