[EM] Poll Ballot, from Richard

Thu Jul 18 02:22:11 PDT 2024

Sorry, I can’t control your voting in November.

You’re going to vote for Biden—or obediently for whomever the DNC says.

Trump will win because you insist on splitting the vote.

…& when Trump wins, don’t forget to congratulate yourself for achieving
that by your dishonest hold-your-nose sucker voting.

On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 02:01 Michael Garman <michael.garman at rankthevote.us>
wrote:

>
>
> And how do you intend to make that happen?
>
> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 4:43 AM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> My magic plan is honest voting.
>>
>> Not splitting the non-Trump between honest voters & giveaway-sucker
>> voters.
>>
>> Not having a high percentage of us throw their vote away on someone none
>> of us want.
>>
>> Do you see the lunacy of most of the voters holding their nose & voting
>> for someone that none of us want?
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 01:15 Michael Garman <
>> michael.garman at rankthevote.us> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> What’s your magic plan to make a third party candidate win in 2024? A
>>> plan that doesn’t rely on unrepresentative Internet alternative method
>>> polls.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 1:43 AM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 22:16 John T Whelan <john.whelan at astro.rit.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Richard gets at the fundamental problem with polls like this: anyone
>>>>> willing to run for President as a third party candidate in the current
>>>>> political climate under the current electoral system has shown a lack of
>>>>> judgement and responsibility which makes them an unacceptable choice.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, it just means they aren’t lesser-evil suckers.
>>>>
>>>> The-Two-Choices are for the suckers who believe whatever ther TV tells
>>>> them
>>>>
>>>> e.g. the bizarre looney belief that two candidates & parties that none
>>>> of us want could be The-Two-Choices.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it would be better to have a better electoral system. That’s why
>>>> we’re all here.
>>>>
>>>> But that doesn’t mean we have to continue to be such complete suckers
>>>> now.
>>>>
>>>> Michael Ossipoff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Election-Methods <
>>>>> election-methods-bounces at lists.electorama.com> on behalf of Michael
>>>>> Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 18, 2024 4:35:20 AM
>>>>> *To:* Richard, the VoteFair guy <electionmethods at votefair.org>
>>>>> *Cc:* election-methods at lists.electorama.com <
>>>>> election-methods at lists.electorama.com>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [EM] Poll Ballot, from Richard
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> Please see article KB0042035 at help.rit.edu or contact the RIT
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 16:55 Richard, the VoteFair guy <
>>>>> electionmethods at votefair.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael, here is my ballot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you claim you need a full ranking, then I choose not to vote in
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> poll.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard—
>>>>>
>>>>> Ballot recorded.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> No, neither RP(wv), nor RCV, nor STV requires a full ranking. So your
>>>>> ballot is perfectly technically valid & complete, as-is.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's because I don't have time to research unfamiliar
>>>>>> candidates and unfamiliar parties.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, that’s a good reason to vote a short ranking or a
>>>>> 1-candidate approval.
>>>>>
>>>>> I & others voted that way in the voting-systems poll.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would probably be as inappropriate as hell for the poll proposer &
>>>>> conductor to comment on someone’s ballot.
>>>>>
>>>>> But surely it would be okay for anyone here to reply to someone else’s
>>>>> political comments, or evaluations of candidates & parties.
>>>>>
>>>>> Such discussion is necessary, & there’s an understanding here that
>>>>> “electioneering” is part of polling…or at least should be permissible. I
>>>>> believe that it’s more than permissible: Discussion about why we vote as we
>>>>> do, & the expression of contrary opinions, reactions or choices, are
>>>>> essential.
>>>>>
>>>>> But it probably wouldn’t be appropriate in the “official” reply that
>>>>> acknowledges your ballot.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I’ll reply in a separate post, immediately after this one.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the candidate poll my ballot is that I rank Biden as the only
>>>>>> "approved" candidate -- even though I wish he would drop out and
>>>>>> transfer his delegate votes to nearly anyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I rank Trump at the bottom of the candidate list, below all the other
>>>>>> candidates, because he wants to destroy democracy, destroy the U.S.
>>>>>> economy as a favor to Putin, and destroy the U.S. military as another
>>>>>> favor to Putin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In between I rank all the other candidates at the same preference
>>>>>> level,
>>>>>> and not worth researching to rank them because they lack high-level
>>>>>> executive experience and expertise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the party poll, I rank the Democratic party as the only "approved"
>>>>>> party because it's the only party offering a viable candidate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Under current circumstances I rank the Republican party at the bottom
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the list, below all other parties.  That's because they are not
>>>>>> offering
>>>>>> a candidate who wants to preserve fair elections, protect the U.S.
>>>>>> against its enemies, and improve the economy.  As another flaw, the
>>>>>> new
>>>>>> Republican party platform claims the presidential election will not
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> fair if the Republican candidate doesn't win the presidential
>>>>>> election.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In case you didn't notice the above words "only approved party," I'll
>>>>>> clarify that all the parties other than the Democratic party are
>>>>>> "unapproved" because they do not offer viable candidates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently, in this poll, you want me to point to one party as the
>>>>>> one I
>>>>>> like.  It's "none of the above."  That's because I dislike all
>>>>>> current
>>>>>> U.S. political parties.  Yes, I'm willing to "throw away" this vote
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> express this preference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clarification:  I register with either the Republican or Democratic
>>>>>> party so I can vote in the primary elections of one or the other of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> two parties that supply viable nominees.  I switch between those two
>>>>>> parties periodically.  I dislike them both.  I also dislike all third
>>>>>> parties.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My dislike of existing political parties is why I promote
>>>>>> election-method reform!  If U.S. election reforms are well-designed,
>>>>>> then in the future at least one U.S. party will be motivated to offer
>>>>>> wise problem-solving leaders instead of whatever you want to call
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> current nominees.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard Fobes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/16/2024 9:24 PM, Michael Ossipoff wrote:
>>>>>> > One reason for my voting 1st is to demonstrate what I mean by the
>>>>>> > voting-instructions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for
>>>>>> list info
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----
>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list
>>>> info
>>>>
>>>
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