[EM] Poll Ballot, from Richard

[Michael Garman]

And how do you intend to make that happen?

On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 4:43 AM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> My magic plan is honest voting.
>
> Not splitting the non-Trump between honest voters & giveaway-sucker voters.
>
> Not having a high percentage of us throw their vote away on someone none
> of us want.
>
> Do you see the lunacy of most of the voters holding their nose & voting
> for someone that none of us want?
>
> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 01:15 Michael Garman <
> michael.garman at rankthevote.us> wrote:
>
>>
>> What’s your magic plan to make a third party candidate win in 2024? A
>> plan that doesn’t rely on unrepresentative Internet alternative method
>> polls.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 1:43 AM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 22:16 John T Whelan <john.whelan at astro.rit.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Richard gets at the fundamental problem with polls like this: anyone
>>>> willing to run for President as a third party candidate in the current
>>>> political climate under the current electoral system has shown a lack of
>>>> judgement and responsibility which makes them an unacceptable choice.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, it just means they aren’t lesser-evil suckers.
>>>
>>> The-Two-Choices are for the suckers who believe whatever ther TV tells
>>> them
>>>
>>> e.g. the bizarre looney belief that two candidates & parties that none
>>> of us want could be The-Two-Choices.
>>>
>>> Yes, it would be better to have a better electoral system. That’s why
>>> we’re all here.
>>>
>>> But that doesn’t mean we have to continue to be such complete suckers
>>> now.
>>>
>>> Michael Ossipoff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Election-Methods <election-methods-bounces at lists.electorama.com>
>>>> on behalf of Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 18, 2024 4:35:20 AM
>>>> *To:* Richard, the VoteFair guy <electionmethods at votefair.org>
>>>> *Cc:* election-methods at lists.electorama.com <
>>>> election-methods at lists.electorama.com>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [EM] Poll Ballot, from Richard
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 16:55 Richard, the VoteFair guy <
>>>> electionmethods at votefair.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Michael, here is my ballot.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you claim you need a full ranking, then I choose not to vote in
>>>>> this
>>>>> poll.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard—
>>>>
>>>> Ballot recorded.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> No, neither RP(wv), nor RCV, nor STV requires a full ranking. So your
>>>> ballot is perfectly technically valid & complete, as-is.
>>>>
>>>> That's because I don't have time to research unfamiliar
>>>>> candidates and unfamiliar parties.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course, that’s a good reason to vote a short ranking or a
>>>> 1-candidate approval.
>>>>
>>>> I & others voted that way in the voting-systems poll.
>>>>
>>>> It would probably be as inappropriate as hell for the poll proposer &
>>>> conductor to comment on someone’s ballot.
>>>>
>>>> But surely it would be okay for anyone here to reply to someone else’s
>>>> political comments, or evaluations of candidates & parties.
>>>>
>>>> Such discussion is necessary, & there’s an understanding here that
>>>> “electioneering” is part of polling…or at least should be permissible. I
>>>> believe that it’s more than permissible: Discussion about why we vote as we
>>>> do, & the expression of contrary opinions, reactions or choices, are
>>>> essential.
>>>>
>>>> But it probably wouldn’t be appropriate in the “official” reply that
>>>> acknowledges your ballot.
>>>>
>>>> So I’ll reply in a separate post, immediately after this one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In the candidate poll my ballot is that I rank Biden as the only
>>>>> "approved" candidate -- even though I wish he would drop out and
>>>>> transfer his delegate votes to nearly anyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> I rank Trump at the bottom of the candidate list, below all the other
>>>>> candidates, because he wants to destroy democracy, destroy the U.S.
>>>>> economy as a favor to Putin, and destroy the U.S. military as another
>>>>> favor to Putin.
>>>>>
>>>>> In between I rank all the other candidates at the same preference
>>>>> level,
>>>>> and not worth researching to rank them because they lack high-level
>>>>> executive experience and expertise.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the party poll, I rank the Democratic party as the only "approved"
>>>>> party because it's the only party offering a viable candidate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Under current circumstances I rank the Republican party at the bottom
>>>>> of
>>>>> the list, below all other parties.  That's because they are not
>>>>> offering
>>>>> a candidate who wants to preserve fair elections, protect the U.S.
>>>>> against its enemies, and improve the economy.  As another flaw, the
>>>>> new
>>>>> Republican party platform claims the presidential election will not be
>>>>> fair if the Republican candidate doesn't win the presidential election.
>>>>>
>>>>> In case you didn't notice the above words "only approved party," I'll
>>>>> clarify that all the parties other than the Democratic party are
>>>>> "unapproved" because they do not offer viable candidates.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparently, in this poll, you want me to point to one party as the one
>>>>> I
>>>>> like.  It's "none of the above."  That's because I dislike all current
>>>>> U.S. political parties.  Yes, I'm willing to "throw away" this vote to
>>>>> express this preference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Clarification:  I register with either the Republican or Democratic
>>>>> party so I can vote in the primary elections of one or the other of
>>>>> the
>>>>> two parties that supply viable nominees.  I switch between those two
>>>>> parties periodically.  I dislike them both.  I also dislike all third
>>>>> parties.
>>>>>
>>>>> My dislike of existing political parties is why I promote
>>>>> election-method reform!  If U.S. election reforms are well-designed,
>>>>> then in the future at least one U.S. party will be motivated to offer
>>>>> wise problem-solving leaders instead of whatever you want to call
>>>>> their
>>>>> current nominees.
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard Fobes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/16/2024 9:24 PM, Michael Ossipoff wrote:
>>>>> > One reason for my voting 1st is to demonstrate what I mean by the
>>>>> > voting-instructions:
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>> ----
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>>>>> list info
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>> info
>>>
>>
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