[EM] Poll Ballot, from Richard

[Michael Garman]

What’s your magic plan to make a third party candidate win in 2024? A plan
that doesn’t rely on unrepresentative Internet alternative method polls.


On Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 1:43 AM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 22:16 John T Whelan <john.whelan at astro.rit.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Richard gets at the fundamental problem with polls like this: anyone
>> willing to run for President as a third party candidate in the current
>> political climate under the current electoral system has shown a lack of
>> judgement and responsibility which makes them an unacceptable choice.
>>
>
> No, it just means they aren’t lesser-evil suckers.
>
> The-Two-Choices are for the suckers who believe whatever ther TV tells them
>
> e.g. the bizarre looney belief that two candidates & parties that none of
> us want could be The-Two-Choices.
>
> Yes, it would be better to have a better electoral system. That’s why
> we’re all here.
>
> But that doesn’t mean we have to continue to be such complete suckers now.
>
> Michael Ossipoff
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Election-Methods <election-methods-bounces at lists.electorama.com>
>> on behalf of Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 18, 2024 4:35:20 AM
>> *To:* Richard, the VoteFair guy <electionmethods at votefair.org>
>> *Cc:* election-methods at lists.electorama.com <
>> election-methods at lists.electorama.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [EM] Poll Ballot, from Richard
>>
>>
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>>
>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 16:55 Richard, the VoteFair guy <
>> electionmethods at votefair.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Michael, here is my ballot.
>>>
>>
>>
>>> If you claim you need a full ranking, then I choose not to vote in this
>>> poll.
>>
>>
>> Richard—
>>
>> Ballot recorded.
>>
>>>
>> No, neither RP(wv), nor RCV, nor STV requires a full ranking. So your
>> ballot is perfectly technically valid & complete, as-is.
>>
>> That's because I don't have time to research unfamiliar
>>> candidates and unfamiliar parties.
>>
>>
>> Of course, that’s a good reason to vote a short ranking or a 1-candidate
>> approval.
>>
>> I & others voted that way in the voting-systems poll.
>>
>> It would probably be as inappropriate as hell for the poll proposer &
>> conductor to comment on someone’s ballot.
>>
>> But surely it would be okay for anyone here to reply to someone else’s
>> political comments, or evaluations of candidates & parties.
>>
>> Such discussion is necessary, & there’s an understanding here that
>> “electioneering” is part of polling…or at least should be permissible. I
>> believe that it’s more than permissible: Discussion about why we vote as we
>> do, & the expression of contrary opinions, reactions or choices, are
>> essential.
>>
>> But it probably wouldn’t be appropriate in the “official” reply that
>> acknowledges your ballot.
>>
>> So I’ll reply in a separate post, immediately after this one.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> In the candidate poll my ballot is that I rank Biden as the only
>>> "approved" candidate -- even though I wish he would drop out and
>>> transfer his delegate votes to nearly anyone.
>>>
>>> I rank Trump at the bottom of the candidate list, below all the other
>>> candidates, because he wants to destroy democracy, destroy the U.S.
>>> economy as a favor to Putin, and destroy the U.S. military as another
>>> favor to Putin.
>>>
>>> In between I rank all the other candidates at the same preference level,
>>> and not worth researching to rank them because they lack high-level
>>> executive experience and expertise.
>>>
>>> In the party poll, I rank the Democratic party as the only "approved"
>>> party because it's the only party offering a viable candidate.
>>>
>>> Under current circumstances I rank the Republican party at the bottom of
>>> the list, below all other parties.  That's because they are not offering
>>> a candidate who wants to preserve fair elections, protect the U.S.
>>> against its enemies, and improve the economy.  As another flaw, the new
>>> Republican party platform claims the presidential election will not be
>>> fair if the Republican candidate doesn't win the presidential election.
>>>
>>> In case you didn't notice the above words "only approved party," I'll
>>> clarify that all the parties other than the Democratic party are
>>> "unapproved" because they do not offer viable candidates.
>>>
>>> Apparently, in this poll, you want me to point to one party as the one I
>>> like.  It's "none of the above."  That's because I dislike all current
>>> U.S. political parties.  Yes, I'm willing to "throw away" this vote to
>>> express this preference.
>>>
>>> Clarification:  I register with either the Republican or Democratic
>>> party so I can vote in the primary elections of one or the other of the
>>> two parties that supply viable nominees.  I switch between those two
>>> parties periodically.  I dislike them both.  I also dislike all third
>>> parties.
>>>
>>> My dislike of existing political parties is why I promote
>>> election-method reform!  If U.S. election reforms are well-designed,
>>> then in the future at least one U.S. party will be motivated to offer
>>> wise problem-solving leaders instead of whatever you want to call their
>>> current nominees.
>>>
>>> Richard Fobes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/16/2024 9:24 PM, Michael Ossipoff wrote:
>>> > One reason for my voting 1st is to demonstrate what I mean by the
>>> > voting-instructions:
>>>
>>> ...
>>> ----
>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list
>>> info
>>>
>>
>> ----
> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list
> info
>
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