[EM] Simple Tournament Proposal

[Forest Simmons]

Is clone dependence a problem ... teaming or crowding in tournaments?



On Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 7:31 AM Hahn, Paul <manynote at wustl.edu> wrote:

> "In sports, what strategies could exist? I'd imagine something more
> like... team B tells team X to play badly against team C, because the
> tiebreaker won't make X win anyway. Thus if say, the Smith set is ABCX,
> then it's possible that X losing more heavily against C could make B win
> instead of A. That's more like compromising, but it's not quite the same
> thing."
>
> AFAIK the majority of deliberate losing (or not winning as handily as one
> is capable) in sports are to take advantage of side bets.  I can imagine
> that in a double elimination tournament one might deliberately go over to
> the loser's bracket to avoid a team one is particularly bad against, in the
> hope that they'll be eliminated before you have to face them.  But that
> means you have to fight your way through the loser's bracket, which means
> more matches; I don't know that it would be worth it most of the time.
>
> The other scenario I am aware of is that in chess and some other sports,
> one can lose or not win as big to avoid having your rating increased, so
> that (again) you get to face lesser opposition.  This definitely happens.
>
> I'm not sure how much of this carries over to an election situation,
> though.
>
> --pH
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Election-Methods <election-methods-bounces at lists.electorama.com> On
> Behalf Of Kristofer Munsterhjelm
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 8:03 AM
> To: Forest Simmons <forest.simmons21 at gmail.com>; EM <
> Election-methods at lists.electorama.com>; Kevin Venzke <stepjak at yahoo.fr>;
> Andy Jennings <elections at jenningsstory.com>; Colin Champion <
> colin.champion at routemaster.app>; Andy Dienes <andydienes at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [EM] Simple Tournament Proposal
>
> On 3/22/23 05:00, Forest Simmons wrote:
> > Here's my suggestion for choice of tournament champion:
> >
> > Lacking an undefeated team, elect the pairwise victor of the defensive
> > and offensive champs.
>
> I'll have to investigate further, but my impression from working with
> burial-resistant methods is that it's impossible to make a method that's
> burial resistant (in the DMTCBR sense) without using positional data.
>
> However, another important property to note is that the modes of strategy
> very much depend on how the data is gathered. In an election situation,
> burial is fairly easy: just change A>X>B>C>D>E>F into
> A>B>C>D>E>F>X. But in sports, the analog would be that A decides to tell
> B to "strategically defeat X", e.g. to score more goals against X (or
> similar) to push X further down the ranking. Presumably any team B would
> be doing its best to defeat X already, so "burial" doesn't really seem to
> be a strategy in sports.
>
> Thus it's not a problem that we don't have positional data, because we
> don't need to defend against that particular strategy.
>
> In sports, what strategies could exist? I'd imagine something more like...
> team B tells team X to play badly against team C, because the tiebreaker
> won't make X win anyway. Thus if say, the Smith set is ABCX, then it's
> possible that X losing more heavily against C could make B win instead of
> A. That's more like compromising, but it's not quite the same thing.
>
> -km
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