[EM] Is it professional?

David L Wetzell wetzelld at gmail.com
Mon Jun 24 15:38:13 PDT 2013

It's a good argument.

1. What if candidates/parties are inherently fuzzy and rankings are
tenuous?  It can be done, I just don't put a lot of faith in them.

A. If I'm wrong and IRV proves defunct then IRV can be used to upgrade IRV.

B. If I'm right then the switch to an "upgrade" might make it harder to
switch away from FPTP/Top2 Primary and the return won't be higher.

2. At issue is how much better wd BTR-IRV be.  Maybe voters will rank and
there'll be GIGO.  Not for all of them, but for enough of them.  I'm not
saying voters can't learn, I'm saying voters will need to learn and there
still might be epistemic limits to their learning of how to vote.  It's not
like buying groceries every week, something relatively stable and done a
lot of times.

3. We get IRV quicker and the US system must hew to the true center sooner,
with the cultural wars wedge issues that have been poisoning our democracy
more effectively reframed by outsiders who may not be able to get elected
but would be able to get their ideas into the public square with a system
like IRV.

We needed a system like IRV over forty years ago.  There'll be more scope
for experimentation and voter-learning down the road, right now the gaming
of the fptp system has accumulated so much dysfunction and resistance to
reform that it's best to push forward with whatever will do the most good
the soonest possible and that seems to be a modified form of IRV.


On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Benjamin Grant <panjakrejn at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Kristofer Munsterhjelm <
> km_elmet at lavabit.com> wrote:
>> Scenario 1: Voters don't rank now, but will rank when they see it's worth
>> it. Here IRV will eventually crash but BTR-IRV is, well, better.
>> Scenario 2: Voters rank, contrary to your assumptions (but suggested by
>> international evidence). Again, BTR-IRV does better.
>> Scenario 3: Voters don't rank and never will. BTR-IRV is here no worse
>> than IRV.
>> Under what scenario does BTR-IRV *lose* against ordinary IRV?
> I am quite interested in the answer to this as well, as I imagine that
> whatever the answer is is a defining advantage, should any exist.
> -Benn
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