[EM] Participation Criteria and Bucklin - perhaps they *can* work together after all?

[Benjamin Grant]

Wrapping my brain around it now, sorry if I am slow on the uptake, will post
later. :)

 

-Benn Grant

eFix Computer Consulting

 <mailto:benn at 4efix.com> benn at 4efix.com

603.283.6601

 

From: Jameson Quinn [mailto:jameson.quinn at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 1:25 PM
To: Benjamin Grant
Cc: EM
Subject: Re: Participation Criteria and Bucklin - perhaps they *can* work
together after all?

 

Previously we had:
 

49: X:1st   Y:4th

50: X:5th   Y:4th

Y wins.

 

Now we add two votes:

2: X:3rd   Y:2nd

X wins.

 

So to make a ranked example:

 

49: XpqYrstuabcdef

49: XutYsrpqfedcba

50: abcYXdefpqrstu

50: fedYXcbautsrpq

 

Add 4 votes:

4: aXYbcdefpqrstu

 

Now I added 12 candidates there, but I'm sure with a little work I could get
it down to somewhere in the range of just 4-8 extra candidates. But the
point is made.

 

Jameson

 

2013/6/17 Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com <mailto:benn at 4efix.com> >

 

From: Jameson Quinn [mailto:jameson.quinn at gmail.com
<mailto:jameson.quinn at gmail.com> ] 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Participation Criteria and Bucklin - perhaps they *can* work
together after all?

 

2013/6/17 Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com <mailto:benn at 4efix.com> >

is because we are letting people skip grades/places.  Or to put another way,
if we asked the voters under Bucklin to fill out each ballot more strictly,
ranking 1st through Nth where there are N candidates - I know that several
do not like this approach, *but* my question is this - does *strictly
ranked* Bucklin fail Participation??

 

Yes. Just add 500 other candidates, and fill in the gaps with
randomly-selected candidates from the 500. Obviously, you could probably get
by with a lot less than 500 - at a rough guess, I'd expect that 8 would be
plenty without changing the numbers here, and probably around 4-6 would be
enough to make a similar example with smaller gaps work, but my point is
that with enough extra candidates who cluster at the bottom of most ballots,
you can turn any rated scenario into a ranked scenario.

 

You are being tempted by a mirage here. The first lesson of "voting school
kindergarten" is that most problems don't have a perfect solution. That
doesn't mean you stop looking for ways to improve things, but it does mean
that when you imagine a "fix", you do your best to shoot holes in your own
idea. 95% of the time you'll succeed, but the other 5% still makes it worth
it.

 

Jameson

 

Oh.  That's disappointing.  I have to see it with my own eyes, although I am
sure you know what you are talking about, my brain won't let me move on
until I see the disproof.  So I will try to create one - a situation where
in using strictly ranked Bucklin, adding a new ballot in which A is ranked
higher than B, this new ballot somehow switches the winner from A to B.

 

The challenge is that its intuitively seems like such an impossible task, I
am worried that should such an example be possible (and you say it is, and I
believe you) I might never find it in my blind spot!

 

So if anyone *has* a handy example of this, I would be grateful for it being
brought to my attention, otherwise, I am going to have to try to create it
on my own in my own blind spot.

 

Thanks. :)

 

-Benn Grant

eFix Computer Consulting

 <mailto:benn at 4efix.com> benn at 4efix.com

603.283.6601

 

 

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