[EM] Participation Criteria and Bucklin - perhaps they *can* work together after all?

[Jameson Quinn]

Previously we had:
 **

49: X:1st   Y:4th****

50: X:5th   Y:4th****

Y wins.****

** **

Now we add two votes:****

2: X:3rd   Y:2nd****

X wins.


So to make a ranked example:

49: XpqYrstuabcdef
49: XutYsrpqfedcba
50: abcYXdefpqrstu
50: fedYXcbautsrpq

Add 4 votes:
4: aXYbcdefpqrstu

Now I added 12 candidates there, but I'm sure with a little work I could
get it down to somewhere in the range of just 4-8 extra candidates. But the
point is made.

Jameson

2013/6/17 Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com>

> ** **
>
> *From:* Jameson Quinn [mailto:jameson.quinn at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 12:15 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Participation Criteria and Bucklin - perhaps they *can*
> work together after all?****
>
> ** **
>
> 2013/6/17 Benjamin Grant <benn at 4efix.com>****
>
> is because we are letting people skip grades/places.  Or to put another
> way, if we asked the voters under Bucklin to fill out each ballot more
> strictly, ranking 1st through Nth where there are N candidates – I know
> that several do not like this approach, **but** my question is this –
> does **strictly ranked** Bucklin fail Participation??****
>
> ** **
>
> Yes. Just add 500 other candidates, and fill in the gaps with
> randomly-selected candidates from the 500. Obviously, you could probably
> get by with a lot less than 500 — at a rough guess, I'd expect that 8 would
> be plenty without changing the numbers here, and probably around 4-6 would
> be enough to make a similar example with smaller gaps work, but my point is
> that with enough extra candidates who cluster at the bottom of most
> ballots, you can turn any rated scenario into a ranked scenario.****
>
> ** **
>
> You are being tempted by a mirage here. The first lesson of "voting school
> kindergarten" is that most problems don't have a perfect solution. That
> doesn't mean you stop looking for ways to improve things, but it does mean
> that when you imagine a "fix", you do your best to shoot holes in your own
> idea. 95% of the time you'll succeed, but the other 5% still makes it worth
> it.****
>
> ** **
>
> Jameson****
>
> ** **
>
> Oh.  That’s disappointing.  I have to see it with my own eyes, although I
> am sure you know what you are talking about, my brain won’t let me move on
> until I see the disproof.  So I will try to create one – a situation where
> in using strictly ranked Bucklin, adding a new ballot in which A is ranked
> higher than B, this new ballot somehow switches the winner from A to B.***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> The challenge is that its intuitively seems like such an impossible task,
> I am worried that should such an example be possible (and you say it is,
> and I believe you) I might never find it in my blind spot!****
>
> ** **
>
> So if anyone **has** a handy example of this, I would be grateful for it
> being brought to my attention, otherwise, I am going to have to try to
> create it on my own in my own blind spot.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks. J****
>
> ** **
>
> -Benn Grant****
>
> eFix Computer Consulting****
>
> benn at 4efix.com****
>
> 603.283.6601****
>
> ** **
>
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