[EM] Methods based on faction-size or hypothetical cooperation or noncooperation

[Kristofer Munsterhjelm]

On 12/27/2011 10:13 PM, MIKE OSSIPOFF wrote:
> Because of the great desirability of avoiding the ABE problem, it's
> worth considering or looking at
> all sorts of possible solutions.
>
> MMPO and MDDTR are known to work fine, though they have vulnerability to
> non-valid criticisms.

If you're referring to Kevin's example, I don't think you can call the 
MMPO criticism inherently "non-valid". To quote yourself, in an earlier 
post:

> You (Kristofer Munsterhjelm -ed) wrote:
>
>> You could of course argue that "if I gave it to B, A would have been
>> just as unhappy, and if I gave it to A, B would have been just as
>> unhappy, so I dare you to show me the particular group that has been
>> wronged by this". I still think that you can say that you wronged the
>> two groups as a whole
>
> [endquote]
>
> Ok, sure. You may have wronged them collectively, by electing someone over whom
> no one in either group prefers anyone other than their favorite.
>
> The question is, how badly does that wrong them?
>
> Badly enough to give up FBC, SFC, LNHa, CD, and Mono-Add-Plump?
>
> The ABE problem might be a peculiarly American problem. I don't expect others
> to recognize it as a problem. We have the Republocrats, and, additionally, lots of
> small factions who are terribly mutually antagonistic, jealous, and rivalry-inclined; but
> which, together, might add up to a majority.

This, I took to mean that with MMPO, you pay some to get some 
compliances you want. You "pay" by having the method exhibit the strange 
results in Kevin's example, and you get FBC, SFC, LNHarm, etc., in return.

Furthremore, your "might be a pecuilarly American problem" then suggests 
that there's nothing inherently non-valid about the criticism. You say 
that it is non-valid from your own point of view, where you think the 
tradeoff made by MMPO is worth it. Others (like me) may have different 
opinions. Saying that you're willing to make the tradeoff is quite a 
different thing than saying that the criticism (e.g. MMPO's Plurality 
failure) is inherently invalid.