[EM] Utah Republican Party Scraps IRV Voting Method

[Kathy Dopp]

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:28 PM, robert bristow-johnson
<rbj at audioimagination.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 7, 2010, at 7:55 PM, Kathy Dopp wrote:
>
>> I've answered that question on this list before and Abd ul also answered
>> it.
>>
>> There are *many* good alternative voting methods that do solve the
>> spoiler problem, are monotonic, and elect majority winners and are
>> precinct summable.
>
> would this list include Condorcet?

Yes.  Condorcet is precinct-summable in an n x n matrix where n is the
number of candidates.

>
>> I don't know of any alternative voting methods as
>> bad as IRV/STV (although there must be one somewhere), so I would
>> probably support almost any alternative method that lacks the
>> multitude of flaws that IRV/STV have.  Abdul has convinced me that
>> regular top-two runoffs are good too.
>
> i'm sure as hell not convinced.  if that were the case in Burlington in
> 2009, a candidate would be elected on Runoff Day that was less preferred by
> the electorate than an identified specific candidate who was not included in
> the runoff.

Well, let's just say top-two runoff is precinct-summable, monotonic,
virtually always finds majority winners, preserves voters' rights and
otherwise lacks most of the major flaws of IRV/STV, but does not solve
all the flaws of plurality that IRV/STV was incorrectly envisioned as
solving.

Kathy
>
>
>> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 7:50 PM, robert bristow-johnson
>> <rbj at audioimagination.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Jan 7, 2010, at 7:41 PM, Kathy Dopp wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nice to know someone has some common sense to scrap IRV voting.  I
>>>> found out that NYC tried IRV in the 1930s and scrapped it too. Also
>>>> Burlington VT and Aspen CO have ongoing efforts to scrap it
>>>
>>> *some* people in Burlington VT.  don't assume (until Town Meeting Day,
>>> March
>>> 2) that they speak for the electorate of the city.
>>>
>>> we'll see.
>>>
>>> Kathy, you *still* haven't responded to my question of 10 weeks ago.
>>>  ever
>>> plan to?
>>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2009, at 12:18 PM, robert bristow-johnson wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Kathy Dopp wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 5. It always amazes me how irrationally the supporters of IRV/STV
>>>>> support a nonmonotonic system that creates more problems than it
>>>>> solves when there are clearly better alternatives available that
>>>>> actually solve more problems than they create.
>>>>
>>>> so, Kathy, i am curious as to which of these better alternatives you
>>>> promote?
>
> so you're answer is the traditional election with runoff between the top two
> vote getters if there is no majority?
>
> why can't that runoff be Instantized?  *must* people be required to return
> to the polls at a later date to vote in the runoff?
>
>
> --
>
> r b-j                  rbj at audioimagination.com
>
> "Imagination is more important than knowledge."
>
>
>
>
>



-- 

Kathy Dopp

Town of Colonie, NY 12304
phone 518-952-4030
cell 518-505-0220

http://utahcountvotes.org
http://electionmathematics.org
http://kathydopp.com/serendipity/

Realities Mar Instant Runoff Voting
http://electionmathematics.org/ucvAnalysis/US/RCV-IRV/InstantRunoffVotingFlaws.pdf

Voters Have Reason to Worry
http://utahcountvotes.org/UT/UtahCountVotes-ThadHall-Response.pdf

Checking election outcome accuracy --- Post-election audit sampling
http://electionmathematics.org/em-audits/US/PEAuditSamplingMethods.pdf