[EM] The structuring of power and the composition of norms by communicative assent

Juho Laatu juho4880 at yahoo.co.uk
Tue Jan 27 11:29:14 PST 2009

--- On Mon, 26/1/09, Michael Allan <mike at zelea.com> wrote:

> Two
> specialized voting systems that intercommunicate (state and
> public)
> can give better results than one system, on its own.

There are both positive and negative factors.

> > The public vote is maybe more
> ""sincere""
> > in the sense that that opinion will hold
> > (since doing otherwise would not look nice)
> > but not more sincere in the sense of
> > representing her true feelings inside
> > (maybe e.g. more unstable ones).
> True, rigid opinions are not sincere.  And I never
> considered that a
> fear of admitting past mistakes could make public
> expression
> (including votes) more rigid than private - but only in
> some cases, as
> the level of fear varies widely.
> On the other hand, I argue that public expression is likely
> to be more
> sincere (also truthful and legitimate), not only because of
> *anticipation* of challenges, but also because of actual
> challenges.
> So a vote may be challenged as insincere if it is
> inconsistent with
> other expressions of the voter - "I don't believe
> you are sincere.
> You say one thing, and you do another!"  Such
> challenges are not
> possible when the vote is kept private.

But I think people also try to keep
the internals of their head in good
order. They don't voluntarily become
irrational inside. Many believe that
they are almost always right and
consistent, and want to maintain
this belief.

> Likewise, a vote may be challenged as untruthful if
> it's for something
> manifestly false - e.g. an urban transit plan that defies
> the laws of
> physics - "Don't you realize?  You're voting
> for a plan that assumes
> zero gravity!"  But this challenge requires a public
> vote.
> Likewise, a vote may be challenged as illegitimate if
> it's for
> something that would contradict an accepted norm - e.g. a
> vote to
> expell all people of a particular skin colour -
> "Don't you realize?
> You're voting to discriminate on the basis of
> race!"  But again, this
> challenge requires a public vote.

Sometimes the pressure of the society
may force the voters to make good
choices. But also the other direction
is possible, e.g. when the dominant
opinion is to discriminate some group
of people.

Not also that it is possible the
people will not vote at all (or vote
as some opinion leaders expect them
to vote) if they fear that this is
a test of their understanding.



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