[EM] language/framing quibble

Juho Laatu juho4880 at yahoo.co.uk
Tue Jan 27 11:27:09 PST 2009

--- On Mon, 26/1/09, Fred Gohlke <fredgohlke at verizon.net> wrote:

> Good Morning, Juho
> Let me start by apologizing for my tardy response. 
> Although it was not the only cause, there was an extenuating
> circumstance:  We were invaded ... by our offspring.  My
> wife and I celebrated our 57th wedding anniversary and, for
> some reason, our family thought that worthy of note. 


> To
> tell you the truth, after thinking about my life with my
> wife, I agreed with them.  I am uncommonly fortunate.
> re: "On the other hand a representational democracy
> needs some
>      structure to handle different political opinions,
> ..."
> Does reason not provide a better structure than bias?

People are not always good at reason
based free discussions. People need
basic terminology to discuss about
the matters in some compatible way.
The required structure could be
language based, but could also lead
to the concept of corresponding
opinion groupings.

> re: "... and having parties is not a bad approach for
> taking care
>      of this need."
> I disagree.  It is a terrible, self-defeating approach.
> Many humans lament the depredation of war; particularly
> those subject to its ravages.  Why, then, is the best
> political system we can devise one based on confrontation? 
> Can we not see that confrontational methods must lead to
> confrontational results?  Do we lack the wisdom and judgment
> to seek a method informed by our reason rather than our
> passion?

The methods should be improved
continuously since there are still
many problems. I think all political
debates easily become confrontational,
both free discussion based and fixed
position (e.g. party) based.

> Most people think parties are necessary so you are among
> the majority.

I don't think parties are necessary.
There can be also other approaches
to politics.

> You may take comfort from that, but it gives
> me none.  I look at the evolution, just during my lifetime,
> of gigantic entities that dominate our existence and
> devastate our planet; I look at one nation invading another;
> I look at monstrous greed thriving on deceit and
> obfuscation, and I think, "Oh, Oh!  There must be a
> better way.  We've got to do better than this."

Yes. We are not really a civilized
society yet. Few species kill each
others as eagerly and as intentionally
(and knowing that this is not right)
as we do.


> Fred Gohlke
> ----
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