[Election-Methods] Fwd: [LWVTopics] IRV Voting

[Jonathan Lundell]

On May 11, 2008, at 10:23 PM, Kathy Dopp wrote:

> On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 11:15 PM, Jonathan Lundell  
> <jlundell at pobox.com> wrote:
>> On May 11, 2008, at 10:00 PM, Kathy Dopp wrote:
>>
>>> However, I had not even thought of the need to
>>> count all state-level races at the State-level, rather than the  
>>> county
>>> level, or about some of the other issues you mentioned.
>>
>> I don't see that as a significant problem these days. There has to  
>> be a
>
> You are kidding me I hope.  Virtually every State gives authority to
> count elections and to certify results to the county or township
> election officials. That would be a MAJOR change in every State in the
> nation.  Probably the majority of State election officials are not
> even capable of putting all the election results they obtain from each
> county into a standard format, let alone manipulate it accurately.

What states are you referring to? Most of my experience is with  
California, where (not untypically, I'm sure) most legislative  
districts cross county lines. The CA SoS does a pretty decent job of  
consolidating returns for those and statewide elections, and given the  
lack of statewide counting standards, I'd be fairly happy having  
Sacramento do the counts.

>
>
> Research that issue and prove me wrong, but that would throw a huge
> monkey wrench into the works in virtually all states I know about.
>
>> roll-up *somewhere*, and it's probably easier for the counties to  
>> send the
>> ballots, via some electronic method,
>
> Yikes. You want all the ballots to be electronic?@!  You really want
> to invite fraudulent manipulation.

I don't know about your state, but in California I'm fairly sure that  
the counties don't send their subtotals to Sacramento by Pony Express.

Yes, I want county results, whether as subtotals or ballot data, to be  
sent electronically, and securely.

In my county, paper ballots are already being scanned for the count. I  
don't foresee a change to hand counting any time soon.

>
>
>> to a central counting facility where
>> they're counted once, rathr than do a bunch of local counts and  
>> send those
>> results.
>
> OK. Let's let the most evil dishonest manipulative people who lie when
> their mouths are moving, like Utah's Lt. Governor Herbert and
> Maryland's Linda Lamone or Ohio's Blackwell (formerly) count ALL the
> ballots for their entire State.  Great idea for vote fraud. People who
> want to rig elections will LOVE your plan.

So instead of enforcing a trustworthy central counting system in those  
states, you're asking me to believe that all the county registrars are  
fine, upstanding honest people who would never manipulate an election  
if they could get away with it?

OK....