[Election-Methods] Partisan Politics

[Juho]

On Apr 24, 2008, at 1:55 , Fred Gohlke wrote:

> re: "Maybe other viewpoints like the wasted money and problems of
> one-dollar-one-vote may have more impact on them than the interest to
> limit the size of the entertaining media event."
>
> Aren't you and I wasting effort focusing on such matters?  They are
> symptoms of a deeper malaise.  Ought we not seek to eliminate the  
> disease?

It is hard to say what is the original reason and what is a  
consequence. And it is hard to say what reasoning makes people  
understand the problem and solutions, and where one should make the  
first fixes.

> If you and I (and others) selected those who enact the ordinances and
> budget for our community, wouldn't we seek to insure the best  
> resolution
> of those matters for ourselves and our community?  Given the deceit
> we've seen partisans practice when entrusted with our affairs,  
> would we
> allow them to decide these matters for us if we had an alternative?
>
> Certainly not!

In US all the elected political decision makers have a mandate that  
the citizens have given them. If those politicians are not good, we  
can put some part of the blame also on the citizens.

> re: "Yes.  The starting point (or current point of interest since the
> process is continuous) could be in understanding/education since I  
> don't
> see yet any clear public consensus opinion on what the correct  
> direction
> of change would be."
>
> Can a "clear public consensus opinion" spring forth on it's own?  If
> such a goal is desirable, and I think it is, is it not up to us to
> provide the seeds from which it can sprout ... and then cultivate and
> nurture them to the best of our ability?

Yes.

> re:  It doesn't set any responsibility but I think it may do pretty  
> good
> job in revealing to the listeners that the job is not that difficult
> after all and the change is up to them.  If people change opinions  
> from
> Coca-Cola towards Pepsi that may have major commercial impacts.   
> Changes
> are almost as simple in politics (and easy as well once people have  
> made
> up their mind).  If there is sufficient interest, some new paths  
> will be
> found (not always in the correct direction at the first try, but  
> people
> learn).
>
> I'm afraid I disagree.  People do not "change opinions from Coca-Cola
> towards Pepsi" unaided.  Nor will the people change their political
> system if someone doesn't seek out a new path and blaze a trail for  
> them
> to follow.  These things do not flow from passivity, they flow from
> conscious effort.  Lamenting darkness does not bring forth light.

I agree that people need to assume many kind of roles to achieve the  
target together. Some will find the path, some advertise it to  
others, some implement it, some give mental support etc.

> Juho, I fear you may find the tone of my comments too aggressive.  You
> have been unfailingly courteous, but I don't understand what course  
> you
> advocate for resolving the political problems we face.

No problem. I do enjoy straight talk. The skill to identify problems  
and solutions to the problems maybe comes first and skill of  
marketing them second. All the different individuals form a society  
that hopefully can sum up all the skills to something constructive.

I don't really know but I guess my approach is heavily focused on  
first understanding the field and then trying to influence things,  
and especially fellow people that might then carry their version of  
the message forward. If one wants to make an elephant move forward to  
some better place the best solution may not be to push and shout.  
Opening the gates and putting few straws of hay in some strategic  
positions on the other hand may make a big difference. The elephant  
will move when it thinks the time is right and it has understood the  
benefits of moving forward. If I believe that the elephant would be  
happier in the new location there with good probability is also a  
thinking model that would make the elephant move there. We need to  
develop those thinking models, and sell them first to individuals,  
then as a consensus opinion to the society.

> I am anxious
> to work on solutions, whether the one I've outlined or another that
> addresses the causes of our problem rather than its many symptoms.

Ok, that's what I'm doing too, from day to day. Humans and societies  
are rather complex, so that means lots of learning and maybe less  
often simple actions and long leaps forward. Big changes may happen  
slowly and unnoticed. Better just keep working if the correct  
direction is already clear.

Juho






		
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