[EM] Russ: Abuses

[MIKE OSSIPOFF]

I'd said:

>Saddam probably intimidated voters.

Russ says:

Probably?!!! Yes, Mike, I suppose it is possible that Saddam got 99.96%
of the vote because he was sincerely loved!

I reply:

No, he might have merely reported a fraudulent count result, as did 
Ferdinand Marcos and the Bush people.

Russ says:

For the record, I never said or implied in any way that no U.S.
personnel ever tortured a prisoner. Bad apples exist in any military
force. Mike and his ilk will not be satisfied until not a single case of
torture is committed by U.S. personnel

I reply:

But Russ will. And he professes to be a Christian. A "Christian" who 
supports a gulag where people are held without charges, trial, access to 
representation or Red Cross, and where information is witheld about who is 
held there, just as in deathsquad countries that disappear people? A 
"Christian" who supports killling and maiming many thousands of people (even 
if you only count the civilians), in order to change their government?

Russ continues:

, but his standard for other
nations is not quite so high, is it.

I comment:

I don't have impeachment standards for foreign leaders, because our own 
government  is the one that is our business.

And the "bad apples" claim has been thoroughly debunked by the evidence that 
has been coming in, in the form of administration documents and reports. It 
wasn't "bad apples", unless you consider Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld to be bad 
apples.

Russ says:

But those same people think that
the U.S. taxpayer should *pay for* desecrations of Christian symbols in
the name of art!

I reply:

What same people? Is that a Rush Limbaugh or O'Reilly Factor claim? I don't 
think that taxpayers should pay for desecration of religious symbols.

Russ continues:

Remember "piss-Christ" and that thing that had cow dung splattered on
the Virgin Mary?

I reply:

I'd never heard of those things till you mentioned it, but I wouldn't 
advocate that the taxpayers pay for it.

Russ continues:

The loonies on the left not only thought that was
perfectly acceptable "art," they clained with a straight face that any
attempt to defund taxpayer funding for such crap (literally) is
tantamount to "censorship."

I reply:

Maybe a few people designated by O'Reilly as "Leftists", whatever that 
means, and chosen by him as strawmen, to represent all non-Bush advocacy, 
said those things. I find offensive any abuse of religion.  That includes 
abusing religion by murdering and maiming many thousands of innocent people 
while claiming to be a Christian.

I'd said:

>A number of victims are dead as a result of U.S. torture.

Russ replied:

A number of *thousands* of victims are dead as a result of Saddam's
torture, not to mention his use of WMDs.

I reply:

Saddam didn't authorize that. It was done independently by some bad apples.

Besides, no one knows how many have died in the Bush administration's gulag. 
That's because of the illegal secrecy regarding who is held there and how 
they're treated. Of course that's probably the reason for the secrecy.

Russ's information-source, Fox cable channel, tremendously exaggerates 
abuses by "enemies", while minimizing or ignoring our own government's 
abuses. It's not "Fair and Balanced", Russ.

Russ continues:

And Saddam's victims were not
probable terrorists -- in case that matters to Mike at all.

I reply:

It doesn't matter if someone is a "probable" terrorist. It doesn't matter 
enough to treat them as if they were a terrorist. A "probable" terrorist 
isn't a terrorist. "Probable" according to whom, based on what evidence? 
Anyone who is only a "probable" terrorist or criminal should be tried, in 
open court with rull access to representation, and with the prosecution 
having to show evidence that proves them guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Or 
else released.

Russ is concerned about abuses agains children, so I'll take this 
opportunity to inform him that children are held in the gulag, without 
charges, without trial, without access to representation or Red Cross.


Mike Ossipoff

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