[EM] Dave on approval, ranked ballots

[Dave Ketchum]

Ok, we are debating the meaning of words, and I am getting a headache:

In the IRV example IRV clearly ignores the 27 votes for Nader for they are 
masked by the 27 for Buchanan.

In the Condorcet examples all of the voters assertions get considered, 
though some are too minor to affect the result.

Kevin says the label "ignore" applies to both actions; I do not see that, 
but the dictionary does not clearly back me.

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 00:27:07 +0200 (CEST) Kevin Venzke wrote:

> Dave,
> 
> --- Dave Ketchum <davek at clarityconnect.com> a écrit :
> 
>>>77 A>B>C
>>>57 B>C>A
>>>145 C>A>B
>>>143 C=B>A
>>>80 A>B>C
>>>
>>>WV methods elect C. But if the 80 A>B>C voters instead lower A anywhere below
>>>B, then the winner is B. So the methods ignore these voters' wish that B be elected 
>>>if they can't get A.
>>>
>>Huh?  When they SAID they preferred B, they GOT B.
>>
> 
> They had already said they preferred B to C.
> 

They can do all kinds of thinking before they mark the ballot, but can say 
only ONE thing on the ballot.

> 
>>However, when they said they preferred A, they were a minority part of a 
>>cycle in which major desire for C won.  They did not get ignored - simply 
>>were too small a minority to win.
>>
> 
> They were worse than ignored. The "A>B" part of the ballot is what causes
> B to lose!
> 
> 
>>Now try an IRV example:
>>49 Bush
>>24 Kerry>Nader
>>27 Buchanan>Nader
>>
Restated to also consider margins:

48 Bush
25 Kerry>Nader
27 Buchanan>Nader
>>
>>Now Bush wins, while liked less than Nader, for:
>>      The 24 ballots get looked at and discarded.
>>      Bush wins over Buchanan.
>>      IRV ignores the 27 votes for Nader, without noting their existence - 
>>while Condorcet would have seen that Nader earned a win.
>>
> 
> There's a cycle here. WV would elect Nader, but Margins considers
> Nader>Bush to be weak, and elects Bush.


The revised figures do not disturb wv, but hopefully make margins break at 
the cycle at the desired same place.

> 
> Kevin Venzke

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  Dave Ketchum   108 Halstead Ave, Owego, NY  13827-1708   607-687-5026
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