[EM] Does MAM use the Copeland method?

[Dr. Ernie Prabhakar]

Hi Paul,

On Oct 6, 2004, at 2:58 PM, Paul Kislanko wrote:

> I guess y'all are missing my point.

Finally, we're in agreement! :-)

>
> A wins in the example ONLY because the method discards the C>A votes  
> because
> of the B>C>A set of ballots.

I don't know if that's the only reason, and the more usual term would  
be "overrules", but keep going.

> If we're trying to find something better than plurality, it needs to be
> demonstrably better, and of course this example gives exactly the same
> results as plurality, which is why examples aren't proofs.

I suspect we're arguing over 'demonstrably'.  Do you mean that it must  
be better in *all* possible cases?  In this particular case?   In a  
certain class of cases of interest to you?

> But, to use the terminology and techniques y'all do, let's examine the
> BALLOTS that result if B is not a candidate:
>
> 4: A>C
> 5: C>A
>
> Adding B to the mix causes A to be elected, even though all voters who
> prefer B over anybody voted A third of the 3.

Okay, I think that's what most people here call the 'spoiler' effect.   
I don't remember the original example, but it sounds like yes, that's a  
problem.

> So I ask again, if A should win, why should I prefer any method over
> plurality?

If you think that:
	a) cycles are *normal*, and likely to occur in most elections
	b)  the *only* thing that matters is the spoiler effect
then sure, MAM has no advantage for you.

For me, I consider cycles a relatively rare occurrence, and I worry  
about things like participation and centrism, so there are wide range  
of cases where MAM gives an outcome superior to plurality (and even  
IRV), which is why I support it.

I fully accept that you (and many other people) see no advantage in  
MAM.   That is different than saying it has no advantages whatsoever,  
though.  I believe that most people, once they understand the issues,  
would readily accept its advantages and be willing to change.  Not  
everyone, but enough.

-- Ernie P.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
------------
Ernest N. Prabhakar, Ph.D. <DrErnie at RadicalCentrism.org>
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