Let's found an organization to oppose IRV

LAYTON Craig Craig.LAYTON at add.nsw.gov.au
Mon Nov 13 17:28:25 PST 2000

>Donald: They, centrist candidates, make fair `Caretaker' officials.
>It depends what you mean.  Some people would argue that centrist
>candidates are bad, because more extreme candidates will change things,
>and that change is desirable.  If one extreme takes over, they can
>change things one way.  When the other extreme takes over, they get to
>change things back.  It's certainly more exciting to have polarized
>politics than stable central government.
>D- In memory of the tens of millions killed in the 1900's by various
>governments, I must say --- NONSENSE.     It is not *more exciting*. It is 
>ultra-dangerous.   Save the extremism for p.r. elections.   Executive 
>*exciting* tyrants have filled political voids too many times--- Napoleon, 
>Stalin, Hitler, etc., etc.
>I will take a dull Approval Voting U.S. President winner any day over an
>*exciting* extremist U.S. President winner who claims majority

Obviously, when discussing voting systems, one assumes that these are to
operate within the institutional structure of the constitution / legislation
etc.  It is meaningless to guard against the election of a type of extremist
who does not operate within this structure.  Keep in mind that Napoleon,
Stalin, Hitler and most of the other 'baddies' operated outside the
political structure in existance before they came to power, and in most
cases, outside the existing constitution and even outside the law.  It might
be argued that two of your preferred options (list PR and indirect voting)
were responsible for Hitler and Stalin (respectively) comming to power in
the first place.  It certainly didn't have anything to do with IRV.

Extremists can be elected in any system.  The task of mitigating the effect
of extremism should be left to devices such as: a stable constitution,
resistant to government manipulation; an independant judiciary (or as
independant as is possible); effective checks and balances on political
power; a bill of rights &c.

Extremism is not the alternative to a centrist candidate in a well designed
political system.  The alternative to a centrist candidate is a candidate
with principles and an ideology.

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