[EM] Express any wish for democratic choice of poll-parameters. Do-able if desired.

[Michael Ossipoff]

The hard thing about Voter’s. Choice is that we would  have to do a count
for each method that someone specifies.  …which could be as many as 23.
…all but 4 of which counts would have to be automated, due to the number of
methods being voted among.

On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 18:26 Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Oh, another ballot-addition that I forgot to add:
>
> In. case anyone specifies STAR, my STAR-ballot:
>
> Alternative #1: 5 stars
> Alternative #2: 0 stars
> Alternative #3: 5 stars
>
> On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 17:45 Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Typo-correction:
>>
>> Here is what I meant to write in this paragraph.
>>
>> Whatever method you’ve specified for the count, that’s the method *whose
>> winner* you’re counted as approving down to…in the base-method, which is
>> Approval.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 17:32 Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I should add, to my hypothetical  Voter’s Choice ballot on those 3
>>> alternatives, I additionally cast an Approval-ballot, in case some people
>>> specify Approval:
>>>
>>> Approval set:
>>>
>>> {Alternative #1, Alternative #3}
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 16:58 Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> When proposing this poll, I assumed that people would prefer the
>>>> simplest & least elaborate poll-proposal.
>>>>
>>>> I wasn’t trying to be autocratic or favor my favorites when I suggested
>>>> Schulze & Approval as the polling-methods. Schulze isn’t my favorite
>>>> Condorcet anyway, but it’s popular.
>>>>
>>>> So I suggested what seem to have been the 2 favorite methods at EM.
>>>>
>>>> But it could be that I was wrong about that, because maybe the favorite
>>>> has changed.
>>>>
>>>> Or maybe, contrary to what I assumed, SIMPLE & STREAMLINED aren’t as
>>>> desired as much as DEMOCRATIC or THOROUGH or ALL-INCLUSIVE.
>>>>
>>>> A few people have suggested different methods for the polling.
>>>> Democratically choosing that poll-parameter is easily achievable if people
>>>> so desire.
>>>>
>>>> All that’s necessary is for a few people to express that wishes in this
>>>> thread. If a few do, then there’d be justification for proposing a vote on
>>>> the polling-method parameter. I hesitate to propose that vote now, with
>>>> only two people having hinted about it—otherwise I’d propose such a vote
>>>> now.
>>>>
>>>> So, if anyone would like for us all to democratically choose the poll’s
>>>> voting method, then please either make that proposal, or express that wish,
>>>> because it’s easily do-able.
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime, let me comment on 2 possibilities for that purpose,
>>>>
>>>> …& a possible (but not yet proposed) 3-alternative vote among those 2
>>>> possibilities & the default stays quo (Schulze & Approval, with Schulze
>>>> predominant).
>>>>
>>>> The Schulze & Approval status-quo, I’ll call “alternative #1.
>>>>
>>>> Alternative # 2:
>>>>
>>>> I don’t think you’ll like this one, because it takes twice as long,
>>>> requiring 2 polls—the 1st one to choose the method for the 2nd one.
>>>>
>>>> Of course that vote could be conducted immediately… like right now if
>>>> desired.
>>>>
>>>> To save some time, the existing nominations, + any additional ones,
>>>> could be regarded as being for the 1st of those 2 votes.
>>>>
>>>> What method for the 1st vote? I suggest Schulze, due to its long
>>>> popularity here.
>>>>
>>>> There isn’t much more to say about Alternative #2.
>>>>
>>>> Alternative #3:
>>>>
>>>> A long time ago I conducted an EM poll by a method that I call “Voter’s
>>>> Choice”. It doesn’t require any agreement or choice on a method with which
>>>> to start:
>>>>
>>>> Voter’s Choice:
>>>>
>>>> Each voter indicates 1) A method for the poll;
>>>>
>>>> & 2) a ballot for at least that method, & optionally also ballots for 1
>>>> or more other methods that others might specify, if those other methods
>>>> require different balloting.
>>>>
>>>> e.g. Right now there’s interest in ranked-methods, Approval, &
>>>> Smiih//Score (which requires both a ranking & a Score ballot). So then, if
>>>> you yourself have specified a ranked-method, you post a ranking. …with the
>>>> option of additionally adding an Approval-ballot & maybe a Score-ballot
>>>> (for Smith//Score).  But you needn’t add those others unless you want to.
>>>>
>>>> What if the person specifying Smith//Score is the only person who posts
>>>> a Score-ballot?
>>>>
>>>> No problem!! …as will be seen below, in the description of how that
>>>> ballot + method-specification is counted:
>>>>
>>>> Whatever method you’ve specified for the count, that’s the method that
>>>> you’re counted as approving down to. …in the base-method, which is Approval.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, optimally, on should approve (only) down to the CW.
>>>>
>>>> So, the optimality & effectiveness of automated Approval-vote depends
>>>> on the Condorcet-efficiency of your specified-method.
>>>>
>>>> Optionally, you can, instead of specifying a count-method, indicate
>>>> “Manual”, indicating that, instead of the automated Approval-vote, you want
>>>> to have-counted for you the Approval-vote that you have posted.
>>>>
>>>> So, if only one person posts a Score-ballot, then, automatically, his
>>>> top-scored candidate wins the Smith//Score count, & so he is counted as
>>>> approving down to his top-scored candidate.
>>>>
>>>> If that sounds elaborate, it’s all reasonable & logical, with nothing
>>>> arbitrary or unexpected.
>>>>
>>>> It eliminates Alternative #2’s need two elections, & it doesn’t require
>>>> any agreement on a method for counting the poll.
>>>>
>>>> That’s Alternative #3.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone proposes, or indicates preference for, a 3-way vote,
>>>> immediately, among alternatives #1, #2, & #3, then let’s take a quick vote
>>>> on that immediately.
>>>>
>>>> …by what method?
>>>>
>>>> Either Schulze ( because of its long popularity) or by Voter’s Choice.
>>>>
>>>> Whichever one gets more thumbs up…either figuratively or 👍
>>>>
>>>> I’m not actually proposing that 3-way vote, but I’m inviting anyone who
>>>> wants a democratic choice of polling-method to say so, & we can then
>>>> proceed with it.
>>>>
>>>> I’m agreeable to that if it’s desired. If no one wants to go that
>>>> route, that’s fine too, & that means that you want to just stay with
>>>> Schulze & Approval, as initially proposed. The choice is yours—as of course
>>>> it should be.
>>>>
>>>> In case people prefer a vote among those 3 alternatives, here’s my
>>>> ballot for that vote:
>>>>
>>>> If it’s to be counted by Schulze:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Alternative #1
>>>> 2. Alternative #3
>>>> 3. Alternative #2
>>>>
>>>> (Of course, with 3 candidates, Schulze = MinMax(wv). )
>>>>
>>>> If it’s to be counted by Voter’s Choice:
>>>>
>>>> Specified method: MinMax(wv)
>>>>
>>>> Ranking:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Alternative #1
>>>> 2. Alternative #3
>>>> 3. Alternative #2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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