<div dir="auto">The hard thing about Voter’s. Choice is that we would have to do a count for each method that someone specifies. …which could be as many as 23. …all but 4 of which counts would have to be automated, due to the number of methods being voted among.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 18:26 Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Oh, another ballot-addition that I forgot to add:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">In. case anyone specifies STAR, my STAR-ballot:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Alternative #1: 5 stars</div><div dir="auto">Alternative #2: 0 stars</div><div dir="auto">Alternative #3: 5 stars</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 17:45 Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" target="_blank">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Typo-correction:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Here is what I meant to write in this paragraph.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Whatever method you’ve specified for the count, that’s the method *whose winner* you’re counted as approving down to…in the base-method, which is Approval.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 17:32 Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" target="_blank">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">I should add, to my hypothetical Voter’s Choice ballot on those 3 alternatives, I additionally cast an Approval-ballot, in case some people specify Approval:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Approval set:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">{Alternative #1, Alternative #3}</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 16:58 Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" target="_blank">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">When proposing this poll, I assumed that people would prefer the simplest & least elaborate poll-proposal. <div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I wasn’t trying to be autocratic or favor my favorites when I suggested Schulze & Approval as the polling-methods. Schulze isn’t my favorite Condorcet anyway, but it’s popular.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So I suggested what seem to have been the 2 favorite methods at EM.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But it could be that I was wrong about that, because maybe the favorite has changed.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Or maybe, contrary to what I assumed, SIMPLE & STREAMLINED aren’t as desired as much as DEMOCRATIC or THOROUGH or ALL-INCLUSIVE.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">A few people have suggested different methods for the polling. Democratically choosing that poll-parameter is easily achievable if people so desire.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">All that’s necessary is for a few people to express that wishes in this thread. If a few do, then there’d be justification for proposing a vote on the polling-method parameter. I hesitate to propose that vote now, with only two people having hinted about it—otherwise I’d propose such a vote now.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So, if anyone would like for us all to democratically choose the poll’s voting method, then please either make that proposal, or express that wish, because it’s easily do-able.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">In the meantime, let me comment on 2 possibilities for that purpose, </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">…& a possible (but not yet proposed) 3-alternative vote among those 2 possibilities & the default stays quo (Schulze & Approval, with Schulze predominant).</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The Schulze & Approval status-quo, I’ll call “alternative #1.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Alternative # 2:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I don’t think you’ll like this one, because it takes twice as long, requiring 2 polls—the 1st one to choose the method for the 2nd one.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Of course that vote could be conducted immediately… like right now if desired.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">To save some time, the existing nominations, + any additional ones, could be regarded as being for the 1st of those 2 votes.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">What method for the 1st vote? I suggest Schulze, due to its long popularity here.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">There isn’t much more to say about Alternative #2.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Alternative #3:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">A long time ago I conducted an EM poll by a method that I call “Voter’s Choice”. It doesn’t require any agreement or choice on a method with which to start:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Voter’s Choice:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Each voter indicates 1) A method for the poll; </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">& 2) a ballot for at least that method, & optionally also ballots for 1 or more other methods that others might specify, if those other methods require different balloting.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">e.g. Right now there’s interest in ranked-methods, Approval, & Smiih//Score (which requires both a ranking & a Score ballot). So then, if you yourself have specified a ranked-method, you post a ranking. …with the option of additionally adding an Approval-ballot & maybe a Score-ballot (for Smith//Score). But you needn’t add those others unless you want to. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">What if the person specifying Smith//Score is the only person who posts a Score-ballot?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">No problem!! …as will be seen below, in the description of how that ballot + method-specification is counted:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Whatever method you’ve specified for the count, that’s the method that you’re counted as approving down to. …in the base-method, which is Approval.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Of course, optimally, on should approve (only) down to the CW.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So, the optimality & effectiveness of automated Approval-vote depends on the Condorcet-efficiency of your specified-method.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Optionally, you can, instead of specifying a count-method, indicate “Manual”, indicating that, instead of the automated Approval-vote, you want to have-counted for you the Approval-vote that you have posted.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So, if only one person posts a Score-ballot, then, automatically, his top-scored candidate wins the Smith//Score count, & so he is counted as approving down to his top-scored candidate.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If that sounds elaborate, it’s all reasonable & logical, with nothing arbitrary or unexpected.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It eliminates Alternative #2’s need two elections, & it doesn’t require any agreement on a method for counting the poll.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">That’s Alternative #3.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If anyone proposes, or indicates preference for, a 3-way vote, immediately, among alternatives #1, #2, & #3, then let’s take a quick vote on that immediately.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">…by what method?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Either Schulze ( because of its long popularity) or by Voter’s Choice.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Whichever one gets more thumbs up…either figuratively or 👍 </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I’m not actually proposing that 3-way vote, but I’m inviting anyone who wants a democratic choice of polling-method to say so, & we can then proceed with it.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I’m agreeable to that if it’s desired. If no one wants to go that route, that’s fine too, & that means that you want to just stay with Schulze & Approval, as initially proposed. The choice is yours—as of course it should be.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">In case people prefer a vote among those 3 alternatives, here’s my ballot for that vote:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If it’s to be counted by Schulze:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">1. Alternative #1</div><div dir="auto">2. Alternative #3</div><div dir="auto">3. Alternative #2</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">(Of course, with 3 candidates, Schulze = MinMax(wv). )</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If it’s to be counted by Voter’s Choice:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Specified method: MinMax(wv)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Ranking:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">1. Alternative #1</div><div dir="auto">2. Alternative #3</div><div dir="auto">3. Alternative #2</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div>
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