[EM] Kristofer: Approval vs Condorcet, 4/28/12

[robert bristow-johnson]

On 4/28/12 11:46 PM, Paul Kislanko wrote:
> It fails when approval is used as vote counting method. In approval
> COUNTING, if you voted Favorite above Compromise, you vote Favorite EQUAL
> Compromise, and even though you don't like Compromise, you helped elect the
> idiot.
>
i've been saying this for months.  in Approval voting, how does a voter 
decide whether to approve of their 2nd choice.  they surely want their 
2nd choice to beat their most hated candidate, but they don't want to 
help their 2nd choice to beat their favorite.

Approval sucks.

similar problem for Score voting.

you just cannot say that these two systems speak adequately to the 
burden of tactical voting they place upon voters.

> On Apr 28, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Michael Ossipoff wrote:
> ....
>> For one thing, Condorcet discourages honesty,

this is just stupid.

>>   because, even if you
>> top-rank Compromise, top-ranking Favorite too can cause Compromise to
>> lose to Worse.

as long as Compromise is ranked above Worse, it doesn't matter what you 
do to Favorite, you are not affecting your contribution to Compromise's 
position with respect to Worse's position (your vote increases 
Compomise's lead over Worse or decreases Worse's lead over Compromise).

>>   ....when ranking Compromise _alone_ in 1st place would
>> have defeated Worse. To do your best to defeat Worse, you have to vote
>> Favorite below Compromise.

baloney.  unless you're assuming some kind of pathological cycle is to 
happen.  and i don't accept that cycles are anywhere close to common.

>>   You have to say with your vote that
>> Condorcet is better than Favorite.

???

you mean "Compromise is better than Favorite."?

if that is what you meant to say, then i say you are mistaken.

>>   Consider that before you criticize
>> Approval for not letting you vote Favorite over a needed compromise.
>>
> What is going on here?
>
> I properly have to rank Favorite above Compromise.  Exactly how can this
> fail?

i am still unimpressed with Mike O's analysis if this is what it is.  
maybe i should un-plonk him, but i dunno why.

-- 

r b-j                  rbj at audioimagination.com

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."