[EM] Mike: Count issues - learn English

Paul Kislanko jpkislanko at bellsouth.net
Mon Apr 30 16:30:12 PDT 2012

Mike, your questions become more and more incomprehensible.


You said "I repeat that I don't oppose machine-counting if it can be made as
secure as handcounting can be."


Wherefrom and how did the word "secure" enter this discussion? Whatever
handcounting is it isn't "secure."


Seriously, you think hand-counting whatever you get from the "official
ballot boxes" is a "verification" of the vote-counting?


It's not, as we repeatedly point out.


You argue over and over that the only "verifiable" counts have to be based
upon INSECURE notions of paper ballots in boxes.


Suppose we change every ballot-collection-method in existence to paper
ballots suitable for hand-counting.


Show how you can PROVE to me that the paper ballots you hand-counted
included mine.




From: election-methods-bounces at lists.electorama.com
[mailto:election-methods-bounces at lists.electorama.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 5:10 PM
To: election-methods at electorama.com
Subject: [EM] Paul: Count issues.




You said:


You argue we should only use paper ballots to make your
hand-counting easier, to which I would say we should only use electronic
ballots that won't end up in a landfill or be changed by the primary
hand-counter before you get to "verify" them.




How is the primary handcounter going to steal or change ballots when he is
observed by

a large array of video-cameras, and by a close-up set of observers from all
parts of

the political spectrum. (If you want this to have any legitimacy, don't take
it upon yourself to

decide which parties are the "major parties". )


But the ditching, in a computer, of a vote whose only existence involves the
states of transistor-switches

in that computer, or maybe magnetic polarities in a hard-drive--preventing
that kind of count-fraud

would be considerably more difficult.


I repeat that I don't oppose machine-counting if it can be made as secure as
handcounting can be.

Mike Ossipoff



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