[EM] Kristofer, regarding Proxy DD

[Kristofer Munsterhjelm]

MIKE OSSIPOFF wrote:
> Kristofer:
>> Excuse me for hijacking the thread, but I haven't been following up on 
>> the development on proxy direct democracy. I assume this is the same 
>> thing as "liquid democracy", i.e. that you have a direct democracy where 
>> the voters can subscribe or give their voting power to proxies.
>> 
>> [endquote]
> 
> I haven't read those proposals, so I can't say if Proxy DD is the same.
> Maybe. I haven't claimed to be the first to propose such a system. It would
> be surprising if no one else had. I haven't plagiarized anyone. I've discussed
> a form of DD. Such methods have been re-invented many times, over a long
> period of time.

I'm not trying to say you are somehow unoriginal in having proposed 
Proxy DD. I was simply curious as to whether these things were the same, 
so that I would know I wasn't asking about something that wasn't 
applicable to your particular system.

> You continued:
> 
>> What's the answer to the vote-buying objection to proxy democracy? This 
>> goes something like: "we can easily offer some proxy money to vote for 
>> X, because we'll simply subscribe to this proxy and see if he tells his 
>> constituents to vote for X, and not give him any money if he doesn't". 
>> That, if unaddressed, would weaken proxy democracy's counterbalance to 
>> the power of money.
> 
> [endquote]
> 
> Of course. Any representative, proxy or delegate could (if crooked) be bought.
> 
> That's an inevitable consequence of representation.
> 
> It happens all the time here now. It's said that we have the best government
> that money can buy.
> 
> The solution: Choose someone honest, as your proxy. That's a big difference from
> ordinary representation. You, and you only, choose your proxy.
> 
> If you don't think anyone is honest, then don't use a proxy.

So the problem is really one of abrupt change (whether a ballot should 
be public or secret) facing a gradual change (proxy power). You would 
want a proxy with lots of power to be accountable; but on the other 
hand, there's also a reason we have a secret ballot so that those that 
don't have much power aren't coerced or bribed to give the little power 
they have to those who have power already.

Proxy democracy then implicitly values transparency at the high end over 
privacy at the low end (because it can't be otherwise, unless I'm 
missing something). I don't know if that will be a problem in practice, 
because nothing like proxy democracy has actually been tried, but this 
priority in itself might be enough to get some people to think twice 
before supporting it.