[EM] What's wrong with the party list system?

[Juho Laatu]

On 4.7.2011, at 4.08, Kathy Dopp wrote:

> Thanks for the responses.  In response to the party leaders having too
> much control, I believe it is possible to make "party-lists" on the
> fly from voters' own rank choice ballots in a way that the most voters
> would naturally support -- which would put the control into voters'
> hands and treat all voters fairly and the same (unlike IRV and STV).
> As soon as I have time, I'll write it up.

Yes. One could use primaries to determine the order of candidates in the closed lists. One could enhance open lists by using STV (or e.g. some Condorcet based proportional method) to build a hybrid method that provides proportionality also within parties. One could also use tree like "lists" to implement more accurate proportionality within parties. There are many tricks to reduce the possible problems of fixed order in the closed lists and to improve party INTERNAL proportionality in both open and closed lists.

> 
> I appreciate the comments and agree with the problem of too much
> control given to party leaders -- but think that it is solvable, and
> that the Condorcet method can be used to resolve any ties with this
> method.   It seems a little more complex than I like, but perhaps it
> can be simply described and counted? Not sure yet.

One reason why Condorcet based proportional methods have not gained popularity is that they are even computationally complex (in addition to being quite difficult to understand to regular politicians) (when compared to basic single winner Condorcet methods that are simpler but do not provide proportionality).

Juho


> 
> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 2:06 PM,  <padraigdelgado at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Kathy,
>> 
>> I can't speak for the person who said it on this list but the primary reason for most people is that it gives control to party elites - those who select the party candidates and decide order on which they come on said list.
>> 
>> Personally I think there are many ways to overcome that problem, and it can be a good method.
> 
> 
> What, for instance?
> 
> 
> Kathy Dopp
> http://electionmathematics.org
> Town of Colonie, NY 12304
> "One of the best ways to keep any conversation civil is to support the
> discussion with true facts."
> 
> Fundamentals of Verifiable Elections
> http://kathydopp.com/wordpress/?p=174
> 
> View some of my research on my SSRN Author page:
> http://ssrn.com/author=1451051
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