[EM] the "meaning" of a vote (or lack thereof)

[Jonathan Lundell]

On Aug 24, 2011, at 6:16 PM, Jameson Quinn wrote:

> 
> 
> 2011/8/24 Jonathan Lundell <jlundell at pobox.com>
> On Aug 24, 2011, at 5:42 PM, Jameson Quinn wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2011/8/24 Jonathan Lundell <jlundell at pobox.com>
>> On Aug 24, 2011, at 7:33 AM, Warren Smith wrote:
>> 
>> >> Lundell:
>> >> Arrow would not, I think, quarrel with the claim that a cardinal ballot has a pragmatic/operational "meaning" as a function of its use in determining a winner.
>> >>
>> >> But but it's an unwarranted leap from that claim to use the ballot scores as a measure of utility. Arrows objection to cardinal scores, or one of them, is that they are not and cannot be commensurable across voters.
>> >
>> > --(1) using, not range voting, but DOUBLE RANGE VOTING,
>> > described here:
>> >   http://rangevoting.org/PuzzRevealU2.html
>> > the ballot scores ARE utilities for a strategic-honest voter.  Any
>> > voter who foolishly
>> > uses non-utilities as her scores on her ballot, will get a worse
>> > election result in expectation.  This was not an "unwarranted leap,"
>> > this was a "new advance"
>> > because the Simmons/Smith double-range-voting system is the first
>> > voting system which (a) is good and which (b) incentivizes honest
>> > utility-revelation (and only honest) by voters.
>> 
>> It still seems to me that you're arguing in a circle. A utility score needs to have meaning logically prior to a voting system in order for a voter to vote in the first place. What is utility, from the point of view of a voter?
>> 
>> Let me put the question another way. Suppose I'd rank three candidates A > B > C.
>> 
>> On what grounds do I decide that (say) A=1.0 B=0.5 C=0.0 is honest, but A=1.0 B=0.7 C=0.0 is dishonest?
>> 
>> In double-range, you'd say that if you felt that B was clearly better than a 50/50 chance of A or C, but as good as a 70/30 chance.
> 
> And if the polls suggest that A & B are strong favorites and C is doing poorly, how should I vote to maximize my utility?
> 
> The point of double-range is that it introduces a small random factor to keep you honest. Thus, I don't think most societies would accept it as a serious system, but it does demonstrate that cardinal ballots can have a "meaning" beyond rankings.

How does it keep me honest in that scenario? Presumably I'd vote 1-0-0; what's my motivation to do otherwise?


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