[Election-Methods] Partisan Politics

[Juho]

On Apr 21, 2008, at 22:55 , Fred Gohlke wrote:

> re: "It is a pity that the needs of show business may sometimes  
> conflict
> with the needs of a simpler and more practical (and maybe also better
> working) political process."
>
> Is it enough to merely tut-tut the show business aspect of  
> politics?  Is
> it not time for specific complaints and specific alternatives?

Yes, it is time to improve things.  Entertainment industry is however  
powerful and much liked.  People do however understand the serious  
nature of politics and will (to some extent) accept the need to have  
some separation between politics and entertainment.  Maybe other  
viewpoints like the wasted money and problems of one-dollar-one-vote  
may have more impact on them than the interest to limit the size of  
the entertaining media event.

> re: "It is probable that the changes will take time and they may  
> happen
> as many small steps."
>
> As I once said, about 200 years ... if we're lucky.  As far as the  
> many
> small steps are concerned, where do we start?  Would it make sense to
> outline an alternative, analyze it, critique it, amend it and seek the
> guidance of other thoughtful people about how to improve the role  
> of the
> people in their government?

Yes.  The starting point (or current point of interest since the  
process is continuous) could be in understanding/education since I  
don't see yet any clear public consensus opinion on what the correct  
direction of change would be.

> re: "As already said, if people want some changes, in a democracy they
> can get it."
>
> Not when all political activity is controlled and directed by vested
> interests.  The only alternative available to the people is violence,
> and that's the poorest choice possible.  Much better if we apply our
> intellect to seeking a solution.

Violence usually doesn't help (since it may harm more than it might  
even theoretically help).  I believe much more in seeking the best  
solution.  I expect (healthy) people to be inclined towards adopting  
good solutions.  Finding working and popular solutions is not always  
easy work.

> re: "Much depends on how well the change promoters (as well as the
> opponents) can formulate and justify their proposals."
>
> Are you among them?  As a promoter or an opponent?

I think healthy humans have the interest to improve things.  Vested  
interests in some existing structure and disappointments in life (and  
in making the changes) may twist that approach a bit.

> re: "I also note again that people will roughly get the kind of system
> that they deserve."
>
> As an old saw, that one is pretty good ... but it fails to lay the
> responsibility at the feet of the people's leaders.

It doesn't set any responsibility but I think it may do pretty good  
job in revealing to the listeners that the job is not that difficult  
after all and the change is up to them.  If people change opinions  
from Coca-Cola towards Pepsi that may have major commercial impacts.   
Changes are almost as simple in politics (and easy as well once  
people have made up their mind).  If there is sufficient interest,  
some new paths will be found (not always in the correct direction at  
the first try, but people learn).

> re: "Maybe one could consider better education etc. to achieve better
> results."
>
> We've had compulsory education in this country for over 150 years.   
> Can
> we be sure the educational system is not one of the causes of the
> problem?

Yes, the system may tend to teach the children that the current  
system is good.  Luckily there is also more independent education  
(parents, friends, universities, media, music, literature).

>   Our local institute of higher learning has a substantial
> political science department.  It does a nice job of telling students
> what's wrong with the system (I sat in on a course, last year), but it
> does nothing to encourage them to develop thoughtful alternatives.

Often science is just about cold information and research.  That may  
give support to some "more goal seeking" approaches too.

> Should we be content to watch and, perhaps, smile at the foibles of  
> our
> society without making a judgment as to the wisdom or rectitude of  
> what
> we see?

As an intermediate step plain watching and learning and smiling is  
sometimes useful.  That doesn't stop making progress when oneself and  
others are ready for that.

>   We have described how our political parties (in the U. S.) have
> taken control of our government, why it happened, and why it is not  
> good
> for the humans among us.  We have hypothesized that ...
>
> ... political parties are conduits for corruption.
>
> ... political parties control all political activity in the United
> States and are in no sense democratic.
>
> ... allowing those who control political parties to usurp the power of
> governing our nation is the antithesis of self-government.
>
> ... to improve our political system, we must find a method of  
> selecting
> our representatives that is not controlled by political parties.
>
> Are these points offensive?  Are they wrong?  If so, in what way?

Looks like a clear analysis.  There might be some "offensive" tone in  
the sense that most of the statements point out negative things.   
People often don't find that tempting.  Many tend to ignore areas  
that contain too much negative flavour.  They may not want to buy  
that kind of negative stuff.  People may need also a positive image  
of what is the alternative to the current state of affairs (a  
positive story of what people might achieve together).

Also the (anticipated) impossibility of getting rid of the parties  
altogether in all forms (and the mapping most of the blame on them)  
may be a factor that turns people away from the proposal.

> If not, are they worthy of considerable intellectual effort to correct
> their ill effects?  Ought we not stand up and be counted?  How can we
> correct the conditions we presently endure?  If we can't do it in our
> lifetime, is it not incumbent on us to start the process so our  
> progeny
> has something to build on?

Yes, every day counts and may lead to positive steps in our own  
understanding and in others.

Juho






	
	
		
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