Fwd: [EM] The new poll

[Brian Olson]

On May 23, 2004, at 7:59 PM, MIKE OSSIPOFF wrote:

> Brian Olson--
>
> You wrote:
>
> Latest web toy: a poll on Election Methods, Ballot Styles, Voting
> Technology and Representation Systems.
>
> http://bolson.org:8080/v/t?poll=em
>
> As I am wont to do, it's a Rated ballot. :-)
>
> I reply:
>
> Why only ratings?
>
> Of course rankings can be inferred from ratings. But with ratings, 
> impossible to tell who is voting strategicallly, and who is voting 
> sincerely. And in CR, it can make an important difference, with 
> strategic voters cheating sincere voters.

Ratings because they are most expressive, and rankings, approval or 
even a single vote could be derived from them.

I discount the importance of cheating a system with a strategic vote 
because there are systems that don't reward such behavior and an honest 
vote is most likely to get the outcome a voter desires. Or at least, 
it's my hope that we'll find one. Right now IRNR is my best guess.

> We all apparently voted sincerely in Februrary's EM presidential poll, 
> but there's no guarantee of that in subsequent polls, especially one 
> on voting systems. Approval balloting should be conducted too, because 
> it offers less scope for strategizers to cheat sincere voters.

I could publish a list of anonymized votes. We could all scrutinize 
them to see if one of them looks like someone was trying to be clever.

> Eric or Steve or Mr. Myers, could you set up a ranked poll on your 
> website for Brian's poll?
>
> If Eric or Steve or Mr. Myer does that, then I suggest that people 
> voting in Brian's poll vote rankings at whichever of those 
> Condorcet-count websites has set up the poll.
>
> And I suggest that voters in Brian's poll post Approval ballots to EM, 
> among the alternatives in Brian's poll.

I expect I beat you to it:
'c' for checkbox, Approval ballot

http://bolson.org:8080/v/t?poll=emc

'r' for Rated ballot:

http://bolson.org:8080/v/t?poll=emr

> In fact, in addition to voting rankings at an interactive 
> Condorcet-count website, why not additionallyk post your rankings to 
> EM.
>
> I'm sure that the poll is a good thing. I agree with those who say 
> that there's no substitute for actual experience in using the voting 
> systems that we discuss, that we can find out things about them by 
> using them that we wouldn't find out by only discussing them.
>
> But voting systems is a controversial topic here. Don't count on 
> everyone rating sincerely in a poll on voting systems. So let's 
> include Condorcet rankings and Approval ballots, as I've suggested 
> here.
> Of course I'd rate sincerely, but you won't know if anyone other than 
> you is rating sincerely.
>
> Mike Ossipoff

So, I'll run the same election methods on the back end no matter what 
the ballot style. IRNR, Condorcet (+beatpath), IRV, Borda, and Raw 
Cardinal Rating summation. 'emc' could be interesting. I've never run 
Condorcet of an Approval ballot. It is of course possible, each 
Approved candidate is preferred to each non-approved candidate, 
approved aren't preferred over other approved and non-approved aren't 
preferred over other non-approved. Could be interesting.

Brian Olson
http://bolson.org/