[EM] James: wv & Approval vs IRV

MIKE OSSIPOFF nkklrp at hotmail.com
Mon Feb 9 04:49:02 PST 2004


James--

When you discussed the strategy of Condorcet wv, did you mean that you 
believe that IRV is better? I point out again that IRV has greater defensive 
strategy need than wv has, even in a thoroughly devious electorate.

And I point out that, while IRV has its defensive strategy need without 
anyone using offensive strategy, wv's defensive strategy need only exists if 
offensivse order-reversal strategy is likely to be attempted.

And I further point out that the possibility of offensive order-reversal is 
a feature of all the best methods, the methods that don't have worse 
strategy problems.

As for Approval, you mentioned Approval's co-operation/defection problem, 
and I don't deny that it's a problem. But I don't consider it a seriouis 
problem, because it happens between candidates who are similar, candidates 
whose voters should be able to expect eachother's help. If the candidates 
are so similar, is it really so important which one wins? I'd vote for both.

By the way, I don't argue Condorcet vs Approval, because I advocate both 
methods.

Approval will quickly home in on the voter median position, and stay there. 
That makes its results about as good as wv's results. The only difference is 
that wv will go to the CW in its 1st election, while Approval might not do 
so till Approval's 2nd election.

In Approval, in Approval's 1st election, many progressives will give the 
Democrat a vote. Hopefully they wouldn't do so in a subsequent election if 
Nader has outpolled the Republican. But in the 1st Approval election, many 
progressives will vote for the Democrat.

Condorcet is different because, even in the uncertainty of its 1st election, 
those same progressives will vote Nader over the Democrat.

You've got to agree that that is an improvement.

Of course Approval & CR are simpler to define and propose, and may well be 
better public proposals for that reason. But there are people who are 
closely in touch with public opinion, who intend to propose Condorcet. 
That's an impressive project, and one can only hope that it succeeds. It 
goes without saying that it would be an especially big victory for 
democracy.

Mike Ossipoff

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