[EM] Re: Approval Strategy A- Question for Rob LeGrand
Dgamble997 at aol.com
Dgamble997 at aol.com
Tue Nov 25 14:48:29 PST 2003
Kevin Venzke wrote:
>I would guess that any single-winner method which produces proportional
>on the whole, is actually producing garbage results, if you focus on any
>district. Consider Random Ballot to see what I'm getting at.
Yes Random Ballot, randomly selecting a ballot paper from each district and
declaring the candidate named on the paper as the winner would, just through
the operation of the laws of probability, produce a fairly proportional and
representative assembly ( though the result in each individual district would not
be fair or representative).
This result would not have been achieved in what most people would consider a
democratic way ( not so much a garbage result as an unacceptable method of
achieving the result).
>>Which single seat method you use can have a considerable effect on the
>> make-up of the assembly though. Plurality is neutral as regards where
>>positioned on a left-right spectrum,
>I am astonished that you would call Plurality "neutral" in this respect.
Since plurality considers first choices only it is neutral regarding a
party's position on a left-right (or any other) spectrum. Methods which take into
account second and further preferences tend to varying degrees to favour
parties/candidates able to attract more second/later preference support. Borda was
most favourable to centrists because second preferences act against first
The results under plurality depend only on a party's level of support and the
distribution of that support amongst the single member districts.
>> Borda (which tends to be
>> unpredictable and throw up a minority of odd results) is most favourable
>But I'm sure you'd agree that the method is too manipulable for this to hold
>true in the real world (crowding incentive, burial incentive...).
Yes I would agree with this but I'm trying as far as possible to assess the
systems on their supporters own terms ( I don't believe it is possible for a
person to completely free themselves from their own prejudices when assessing
anything ). Donald Saari and those who support him generally say that while
there are theoretical manipulation problems with Borda in reality these things
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