[EM] 02/02/02 - Re: 01/31/02 - Two new design features for STV:

[Donald Davison]

From: "Renato V Aguila" <renpaul2 at edsamail.com.ph>
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:30:01 +0800
Subject: Re:  01/31/02 - Two new design features for STV:

Dear Donald,

You ask, "What does the public want?" And then you say that your ideas are
what the public want.
Or is it what the party leaders want? Remember, STV (except in the Aussie
context, which may even not be STV) is all about voting for individuals,
thus denying party leaders even the idea of exerting control through party
boxes. You assume that fifty per cent of people would be giving political
party lists (yes, they are party lists, no matter how you would count them)
their first preferences. Well, he may be right. Or he may not be. It might
be even more, even with any form of optional preferential voting.
That is what the party leaders in NSW may have been counting on when they
made their changes to the Legislative Council elections law.
As I said, Donald, you can propose your ideas to the Australian government.
I'm sure it would delight ALP and Liberal leaders who fear that Hare-Clark
might give more voter control over the kind of people that enter the
Australian Senate.
Or you can propose them to any country that needs to strengthen its
political parties, like mine. However, I would never recommend it for
private elections, such as those in clubs or university senates, etc.
I hope to hear how you will incorporate this into any of the plans you put
on your website.

Ren Aguila

PS. Just one question, though: where did you get the "fifty per cent"
number? What empirical study can you give us as a basis of such an
assertion?

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02/02/02 - "No, it is not what the party leaders want!" by Donald Davison

Dear Ren,
You wrote: "Dear Donald, You ask, "What does the public want?" And then you
say that your ideas are what the public want."

Donald: You wrong me.  If I ask a question, I am also free to answer that
question.  When I write `I say...' I am qualifying the answer as being my
opinion and not necessarily anyone elses opinion.  Others are free to
express an opinion, including you.

Ren: "Or is it what the party leaders want? Remember, STV is all about
voting for individuals, thus denying party leaders even the idea of
exerting control through party boxes."

Donald:  No, it is not what the party leaders want.  In any election, it is
safe to estimate that at least fifty percent of the voters are not informed
and therefore have no real reason, except party, to vote for any candidate.
It is best if we can seperate these voters from the voters who are
informed so that it will be the informed voters that will select which
candidates are to be elected.  The system of partisan STV that I propose
will do this.  The informed voters, not the party leaders, will have the
means to control the final selection of candidates.

Those who vote for party will be supporting the party of their choice.
Those who vote for individual candidates will be deciding which candidates
are to get the seats.  The votes in the party box will be supporting the
party vs the other parties, but these votes will not be deciding which
candidates are to be elected.

Ren: "PS. Just one question, though: where did you get the "fifty per cent"
number? What empirical study can you give us as a basis of such an
assertion?"

Donald: Fifty percent is a conservative number.  In Deane's letter she said
that 95% vote above the line for party.  True, no one likes to rank all 76
candidates, but it is not that big an ordeal.  In Dean's case, she has a
few individual candidates she likes.  She should rank these few and then
finish the 76 rankings by using the ticket from the party of her choice.
If she really wants to vote for candidates she will do this.

You may argue that the percent would be less than 95 under other
conditions, but I say not by much.  The people who want to vote for
candidates are voting for candidates.





Regards, Donald Davison,                      http://www.mich.com/~donald

   +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
   |                        Q U O T A T I O N                          |
   |  "Democracy is a beautiful thing,                                 |
   |        except that part about letting just any old yokel vote."   |
   |                           - Age 10 -                              |
   +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
    APV   Approval Voting
    ATV   Alternative Vote  aka  IRV Instant Runoff Voting
    FPTP  First Past The Post  aka  Plurality
    NOTA  None of the Above  aka  RON Re-Open Nominations
    STV   Single Transferable Vote  aka  Choice Voting  aka  Full Choice
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