re:[EM] Junk Election Methods vs. the Allure of IRVING

[Alex Small]

Donald wrote:

>You wrote: "I was talking to a co-worker about France. I said this
>indicates a flaw of runoff methods."
>
>Donald here: Stop right there Alex, you are not being exactly honest. It
>is well known that Top Two Runoff is only valid for three candidates. The
>French election had fifteen candidates. The French election is a `Job for
>Superman', that is, a job for the superman of single-seat election methods,
>Instant Runoff Voting.

One feature that I see in runoff methods, be it top 2 or IRV, is the ease
with which it can eliminate compromise second choices.  Approval and
Condorcet tend to give weight to compromise second choices.  We can debate
whether or not eliminating compromise second choices is a flaw, but it is
more common in IRV and 2-step runoff than in Approval and Condorcet.  My
statement stands.

>Alex: "She doesn't know much about voting methods..."
>
>Donald: So, you're having a nice little chat with a co-worker and the
>first thing you do is put her down when you tell us about it, not nice.
>Have you sent her a courtesy copy of your email?

Saying a person doesn't know a lot about voting methods is not an insult.
If she said I don't know a lot about rheology (her field of study) I
wouldn't take offense.  If she said I don't know a lot about soccer (one of
her hobbies, just as election methods are one of mine) I wouldn't take
offense.

>Donald: She appears to at least know more about voting methods than most
>and she is correct about the Liberals. She's no dummy.

She is most definitely not a dummy.  When somebody started ranting
about "election math morons" (paraphrase) I responded with a message
stressing that she is quite intelligent.  And she is right about the
liberals.  However, I wonder if a finale between a socialist and a right-
winger is more desirable than th election of a moderate.  From what a
French friend told me the socialist prime minister and the conservative
President would have made the runoff if IRV had been used.

>Alex: "IRV can elect a Condorcet candidate, it just doesn't guarantee the
>election of a Condorcet candidate (if he exists)."
>
>Donald: More dishonesty, you call yourself a scientist and a
>mathematician. What kind of junk mathematics are you using? What are you
>smoking?

I'm not a mathematician, I'm a physicist.  Them's fightin' words! ;)

Seriously, do you disagree with the statement that IRV can elect a
candidate who is also a Condorcet winner?  Do you disagree that the IRV
winner is not guaranteed to be the Condorcet winner?

Finally, for the record, MY FELLOW STUDENT IS EXTREMELY INTELLIGENT!  I
WOULDN'T ROUTINELY ARGUE POLITICS WITH HER IF I DIDN'T THINK SHE HAD SMART
POINTS TO MAKE!

Alex

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