[EM] 04/27/02 - Junk Election Methods vs The Allure of IRVing:

[Donald Davison]

04/27/02 - Junk Election Methods vs The Allure of IRVing:

Hi Alex,

You wrote: "I was talking to a co-worker about France.  I said this
indicates a flaw of runoff methods."

Donald here:  Stop right there Alex, you are not being exactly honest.  It
is well known that Top Two Runoff is only valid for three candidates.  The
French election had fifteen candidates.  The French election is a `Job for
Superman', that is, a job for the superman of single-seat election methods,
Instant Runoff Voting.

Alex: "She doesn't know much about voting methods..."

Donald:  So, you're having a nice little chat with a co-worker and the
first thing you do is put her down when you tell us about it, not nice.
Have you sent her a courtesy copy of your email?

Alex: "...so she started saying that the "successive elimination method" is
much better because in France a whole bunch of liberals divided the vote
and kept any liberals out of the finale, whereas "successive elimination"
(her name for IRV) would have put a liberal in the finale."

Donald:  She appears to at least know more about voting methods than most
and she is correct about the Liberals.  She's no dummy.

Alex: "I tried to explain Condorcet to her."

Donald: So, you tried to explain Condorcet to her, did you now.
    In your explanation, did you tell her that the French election would
require 105 pairings?   Did you tell her that a voter would need to rank 14
candidates in order to have a vote in each of the 105 pairings?  Did you
tell her that 13 of her lower rankings would be used to help other
candidates while her first and most preferred preference was still a
contender, that is, lower choices could harm an earlier choice?
    Of course not, you people who are trying to impose these junk methods
on the public, are more than willing to leave the details for the voters to
sort out, it's not your problem.
    In an Irving election the French voters would only need to rank five or
six candidates in order for every vote to be still in the contest when the
candidates are down to the final two.  And none of the lower choices would
be able to harm an earlier choice.

Alex: "She kept insisting that "successive elimination" wouldn't have the
problem seen in France."

Donald:  Well, she is correct, `successive elimination' wouldn't have any
problem.  This lady has a head on her shoulders.

Alex: "IRV can elect a Condorcet candidate, it just doesn't guarantee the
election of a Condorcet candidate (if he exists)."

Donald:  More dishonesty, you call yourself a scientist and a
mathematician.  What kind of junk mathematics are you using?  What are you
smoking?
     It is not proper for you to use Condorcet as a standard when you are
comparing other methods to Condorcet.  It is like saying that the orange
must be the best fruit because other fruits do not look and taste like an
orange.  You cannot use the orange as a standard if you are going to
compare other fruit to the orange.
     This `Condorcet Candidate' standard is nothing more than a junk
standard created by junk science to support Condorcet, one of the junk
election methods.

Alex: "Face it, folks, IRV  LOOKS  really good."

Donald:  I agree, when you're right - you're right.

Alex: "P.S.  This person is an engineer."

Donald:  I believe you.  That most likely is why she has a better
understanding of election methods and mathematics than you.  You would be
wise to pay attention to what she has to say.  She's one smart cookie.


Junk Election Methods vs The Allure of IRVing and the winner is IRVing.



Regards,
   Donald Davison, host of New Democracy at http://www.mich.com/~donald
                        Candidate Election Methods
   +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
   |                        Q U O T A T I O N                          |
   |  "Democracy is a beautiful thing,                                 |
   |        except that part about letting just any old yokel vote."   |
   |                           - Age 10 -                              |
   +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
    APV   Approval Voting
    ATV   Alternative Vote  aka  IRV Instant Runoff Voting  aka  IRVing
    FPTP  First Past The Post  aka  Plurality
    NOTA  None of the Above  aka  RON Re-Open Nominations
    STV   Single Transferable Vote  aka  Choice Voting  aka  Hare-Clark
          aka  Preference Voting  aka  Hare Preferential Voting

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