# [EM] Let's Kill Two List Members with One Stone:

I like Irving donald at mich.com
Wed Mar 14 05:02:48 PST 2001

``` - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 03/14/01
Greetings,

Tom Ruen wants to test an Approval election and Mike Ossipoff has this
silly `Voter Choice System' of his.
We can dispense with both of them in one execution.

I propose we execute a test ballot to include ten elections.
The first set of five elections will use five different methods on the
same candidates.  The five methods to be: Approval, Borda, Bucklin,
Condorcet, and Irving.
In order to give this test a bit more reality than favorite ice cream
or favorite month, I suggest that we use all the candidates from the last
presidential election for the first set of five elections.

The second set of five elections will use the five different methods
as candidates in five elections using the same five methods themselves,
with the understanding that the election of a method is only to determine
the method to use in the current election of the presidential candidates.
In a different election at a different time, voters may vote differently in
the methods election.  I hope that is clear, fear not, I will repeat.

Test Ballot for Presidential and Method Elections:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Instructions: Rank or Select candidates according to your understanding of
the rules of Approval, Borda, Bucklin, Condorcet, and Irving.

First Set of Five Elections:
Candidates:    Approval      Borda      Bucklin    Condorcet    Irving
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Browne:       |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Buchanan:     |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Bush:         |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Gore:         |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Hagelin:      |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Harris        |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
McReynolds:   |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Moorehead:    |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Nader:        |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Phillips:     |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Note: We need to have a set of choices for each of five methods because we
voters should have the right to vote differently with each method. You may
remember that Tom asked people to rank choices for Irving and then he used
the ranking on other methods, that's a no no.  We voters need to know which
method we are voting in.

Second Set of Five Elections:
Note: When you vote in these elections, you must take into consideration
the fact that you are voting for which method would be best to elect your
favorite candidate in the above elections.  A different election, a
different favorite candidate, and a different time may requires you to vote
for a different method - keep that in mind.
Approval      Borda      Bucklin    Condorcet    Irving
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Approval:     |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Borda:        |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Bucklin:      |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Condorcet:    |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Irving:       |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Second Note: At this point, everyone should realize that `Houston, we have
a problem'.  After everyone has voted for one of five methods using the
five methods, how do we resolve the different results to give us one method
to use in the first set of elections. This is why I call Mike's system,
silly.
We cannot use a method to judge itself. That is what Mike is trying to
have us do. We are trying to use five methods to judge five methods.

The only valid way to solve this is to use the standard of `Repeating
Ballots'.  Everyone gets only one vote to cast below.

Approval      Borda      Bucklin    Condorcet    Irving
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
Vote for one: |           |           |           |           |
- - - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - - + - - - - -
After we have the results of this ballot, we will publish the results and
then have a repeat ballot.  The total number of ballots is limited to five.
If no majority on the first four ballots, then the lead method on the last
ballot is the winner and the method to be used in the election of the
Presidential candidates.
Send all ballots to the list so everyone can be a counter.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
In the event my suggestions are a `No Go', I vote for the month of
March in Tom's Approval test election, a bullet vote for March.

At this time I would like to plug the month of March. There are two
big reasons why everyone should vote for March.
One, we should always value where we are in time.  Now we are in
March, so value it, next month you may be sick, or hurt, or dead.
Two: March is the start of spring, the time when the earth comes
alive, the foreplay of summer.  Enjoy it and remember that most famous of
all poems that comes with March.

"Spring has sprung
the grass has ris
I wonder where the flowers is"
(poet unknown)

Regards, Donald Davison, who is now running five days behind.

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