[EM] RE: Let's found an organization to oppose IRV

LAYTON Craig Craig.LAYTON at add.nsw.gov.au
Mon Nov 13 21:31:09 PST 2000

I wrote --

>It might
>be argued that two of your preferred options (list PR and indirect voting)
>were responsible for Hitler and Stalin (respectively) comming to power in
>the first place.
>D- Hitler lost the 1932 plurality election for President of Germany.
>Hitler was appointed Chancellor in Jan. 1933 by President Hindenberg only
>to the very defective structure of the 1919 Germany (Weimar) Constitution 
>(and the machinations of various *smart* (sic) folks who thought that they 
>could control Hitler and his gang-- a fatal personal error for many of such

>folks).  See Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer (who
>about half of a 800 page book to such 1932-1933 machinations).
>There never was a popular vote for Stalin (or any other of the chief de
>executive officer of the 1918-1991 U.S.S.R.).

I'm aware of this.  There is a *possible* argument that without list PR the
Nazi party wouldn't have had the numbers in the Reichstag to force this.

The Soviet system was designed so as the executive would be chosen
indirectly.  If the election of the executive was done directly by all party
members (by IRV or otherwise), then Stalin wouldn't have had the numbers,
and couldn't manipulate that many voters.

>how many contested elections in Germany in 1934-1945  or 
>in the U.S.S.R. in 1919-1991 ???

I'm not sure how many in the USSR, but there were contested pre-elections,
and quite hotly contested pre-Stalin (and post-Andropov).  Statistical
information from 18th Century USA and 20th Century Soviet Union are not
easily available or reliable at the best of times, but my guess is that the
number of people eligible to vote in USSR was between about 4 and 80 percent
of the adult population, and in 18th Century USA, something like between 10
and 40 percent.  On the basis of the size of the franchise, one is no more a
democracy than the other.

The reason that American elections are more democratic is that American
elections are (kind of) direct.  The hierarchical (ie indirect) Soviet
voting system seems to be designed to be manipulated.

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