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<p><br>
<blockquote type="cite">What about just dividing that person’s
vote equally among all those s/he equal-ranks?</blockquote>
<br>
That is logical and I suppose acceptable for this poll, but I do
like it better with the extra step I suggested.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Better than throwing the ballot out. </blockquote>
<br>
Since we are using the same ballots for different methods, yes.
In a real-life serious Hare election I'd be content (assuming it's
possible to strictly rank all the candidates) to just consider
equal-ranked candidates and any ranked below them to be truncated.<br>
<br>
In Australia the whole ballot would be classified as "informal"
and not counted towards the result.<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19/07/2024 6:30 am, Michael Ossipoff
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAOKDY5Cm_83pOp0bLMssxmcT+AG5BckDpQM7arYfdBqLhT0_Ow@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div><br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at
23:15 Chris Benham <<a
href="mailto:cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">I assume in the party-PR poll we are just
supposed to give our favourite. Is that correct?<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Yes, just indicate favorite party.</div>
<div dir="auto">———</div>
<div dir="auto">For a real public political election by RCV,
sure. I’d change my last name to Aardvark.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">What about just dividing that person’s vote
equally among all those s/he equal-ranks?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Disadvantages to what the voter might have
wanted, but that rule would be stated in advance.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Better than throwing the ballot out. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto"><br>
<br>
<div>On 18/07/2024 3:01 pm, Michael Ossipoff wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I forgot to mention: RCV & STV don’t
allow equa-ranking (though Condorcet does).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">However I wouldn’t call an RCV or STV
ballot “spoiled” if it has equal-ranking. I’d instead
just rank any equal-ranked candidates, at some
particular rank-position, *in alphabetical-order by
last-name*</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I figure the voter won’t mind, because
he doesn’t have any preference among them.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Is that okay?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Of course, for the RP(wv) count your
equal-ranked candidates will be counted as
equal-ranked, because equal-ranking is permissible in
Condorcet.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Additional answers inline below:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 16:55 Richard,
the VoteFair guy <<a moz-do-not-send="true">electionmethods@votefair.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">Michael,
here is my ballot.<br>
<br>
You can translate this into your desired ballot
format.<br>
<br>
If you claim you need a full ranking, then I
choose not to vote in this <br>
poll. That's because I don't have time to
research unfamiliar <br>
candidates and unfamiliar parties.<br>
<br>
In the candidate poll my ballot is that I rank
Biden as the only <br>
"approved" candidate</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Okay.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto"> -- even though I wish he would drop
out and <br>
transfer his delegate votes to nearly anyone.<br>
<br>
I rank Trump at the bottom of the candidate list,
below all the other <br>
candidates</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Okay.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto">because he wants to destroy democracy,
destroy the U.S. <br>
economy as a favor to Putin, and destroy the U.S.
military as another <br>
favor to Putin.</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Yes, The Republican in general,
& Trump in particular, always finishes last,
in every Condorcet or STAR poll that includes the
Republocratic candidates & the Progressive
candidates.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">(In this election-year, Biden is
winning the CIVS poll “2024 presidential
election”. Likewise in a few STAR polls. …because
this year, some people feel a desperate need to
portray Biden winnable, to try to make people vote
for him in November. But ordinarily the
top-finisher & CW is Jill or Bernie…well
alright, sometimes a Libertarian. Never, ever, is
the Republican anywhere but bottom.)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">…& yet, people actually believe
that Jill Stein couldn’t beat him. Usually she or
Bernie is CW, too-finisher in those polls.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">So, the usual top-finisher can’t
beat the always bottom-finisher?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Wow! What are people smoking?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Hello? The always-bottom-finisher
isn’t a threat if we all vote for the (same)
candidate whom we actually all like.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Forget “The-Lesser-Evil” &
“The-Two-Choices”.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">In Burlington Alaska, it was clearly
shown that the median-voters prefer the more
progressive candidates. …in confirmation of those
poll-results.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Lesser-evils voters worry too
much!!!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto"><br>
<br>
In between I rank all the other candidates at the
same preference level, <br>
and not worth researching to rank them because
they lack high-level <br>
executive experience and expertise.</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Okay. As I mentioned, in RCV &
STV, it will be necessary to for the count to rank
those equal-ranked candidates in
alphabetical-order. Is that okay?</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto"><br>
<br>
In the party poll, I rank the Democratic party as
the only "approved" <br>
party because it's the only party offering a
viable candidate.</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Okay. The Democrat Party is your
party vote, for the Party-PR count.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Though it would be improper for me
to comment on your ballot, there’s no rule that
says I can’t comment on political-statements:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">See above about the results of
Condorcet & STAR polls, & what Burlington
& Alaska showed about the preference of
median-voters.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Most people say (in answer to other
polls) that they’re tired of “The-Two-Choices”,
& say they want different parties.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">So yes the parties other than the
Republocratic Party aren’t “viable”, because only
the people want them. :-)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Don’t let the TV tell you what or
who is or isn’t “viable”.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Vote honestly in November, for what
we all want. …& certainly not for someone
none of us want, for whom we’d have to hold our
nose.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">If you’re holding your nose,
reconsider your vote.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto"><br>
<br>
Under current circumstances I rank the Republican
party at the bottom of <br>
the list, below all other parties. That's because
they are not offering <br>
a candidate who wants to preserve fair elections,
protect the U.S. <br>
against its enemies, and improve the economy. As
another flaw, the new <br>
Republican party platform claims the presidential
election will not be <br>
fair if the Republican candidate doesn't win the
presidential election.</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Agreed. Few people want the
Republicans. They’d never win an election with
honest voting & honest count.</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto"><br>
<br>
In case you didn't notice the above words "only
approved party," I'll <br>
clarify that all the parties other than the
Democratic party are <br>
"unapproved" because they do not offer viable
candidates.</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Look what the Democrats offer :-)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">That’s viable? </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">..even though most people say they
don’t want them?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Are the Democrats more viable than
the candidates who usually win the Condorcet &
STAR polls that include the Republocrats & the
Progressives?</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto"><br>
<br>
Apparently, in this poll, you want me to point to
one party as the one I <br>
like. It's "none of the above." That's because I
dislike all current <br>
U.S. political parties. Yes, I'm willing to
"throw away" this vote to <br>
express this preference</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Okay. Done. Your ballot doesn’t cast
a vote in the Party-PR balloting.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">You dislike all current parties?
Have you read all of their platforms? If not, how
do you know you dislike them? What do you dislike
about the *policies* offered by some of the
“3rd-parties” that you’ve heard of?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I’m not trying to get you to change
your vote. That would be improper. Of course your
ballot will be counted exactly as you said.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I’m merely participating in the
political-discussion.</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto"><br>
<br>
Clarification: I register with either the
Republican or Democratic <br>
party so I can vote in the primary elections of
one or the other of the <br>
two parties that supply viable nominees. </blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The two parties that none of us want
are the only viable ones? </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto">I switch between those two <br>
parties periodically. I dislike them both. </blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Yes! We all do!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Switch between them? </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Switch out of them!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto"> I also dislike all third <br>
parties.</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">All of them? Regarding the main ones
you’ve heard of, which of their platform-policies
do you dislike?</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto"><br>
<br>
My dislike of existing political parties is why I
promote <br>
election-method reform! </blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Yes, that’s why we’re all here!
Dislike of The Two Choices. …which obviously are
NOT the two choices.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">But which platform-policy of the
main other parties that you’ve heard of do you
dislike?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto">If U.S. election reforms are
well-designed, <br>
then in the future at least one U.S. party will be
motivated to offer <br>
wise problem-solving leaders instead of whatever
you want to call their <br>
current nominees.</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Regarding the platform-policies
& leaders of the parties you’ve heard of,
other than the Democrats & Republicans—what
about them isn’t wise, problem-solving?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Michael Ossipoff </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"
dir="auto"><br>
<br>
Richard Fobes<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 7/16/2024 9:24 PM, Michael Ossipoff wrote:<br>
> One reason for my voting 1st is to
demonstrate what I mean by the <br>
> voting-instructions:<br>
<br>
...<br>
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for list info<br>
</blockquote>
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Election-Methods mailing list - see <a rel="noreferrer"
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