<div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 01:18 Chris Benham <<a href="mailto:cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au">cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

  
    
  
  <div dir="auto">
    <p>Mike,<br>
      <br>
      </p><blockquote type="cite">In fact, some of us suggested to Richie
        allowing equal-ranking, each vote counted whole, & he
        immediately refused it.</blockquote>
      <br>
      And he was very correct to do so, because the resulting ER-IRV
      (whole) method is garbage.</div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Maybe. Probably. …but it was suggested because it’s better garbage than ordinary IRV.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I wouldn’t advocate garbage, but I suggested that garbage to Richie because it’s a “Lesser-Of-2-Garbages”.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">At least it avoids IRV’s worst.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">[I don’t have any comments farther down in the text. It’s easier to say that than to delete the unreplied text.]</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><br>
      <br>
      Unlike proper Hare/STV  ("normal IRV") it fails Mutual Dominant
      Third. From a May 2014 EM post of mine:<br>
      <br>
      The example I give below is also an example of failure of
      Unburiable Mutual Dominant Third.<br>
      <br>
      "I'd like to suggest a simplified and generalized version of that,
      "Strategically Invulnerable Mutual Third" (SIMT):<br>
      <br>
      *If a set S of candidates are all voted above all non-S candidates
      on more than a third of the ballots, and if all the S<br>
      candidates pairwise-beat some non-S candidate X, then X can't
      win.*<br>
      <br>
      This implies compliance with MDT, and means that a sincere MDT
      winner is invulnerable to any sort of "offensive" strategy.<br>
      <br>
      ER-IRV(whole) fails Mutual Dominant Third (MDT).<br>
      <br>
      05 A=C<br>
      31 A>B<br>
      34 B>A<br>
      30 C>B<br>
      <br>
      B is voted above all others on more than a third of the ballots
      and B is the CW, but ER-IRV(whole), aka AIRV, elects A."<br>
      <br>
      Then there is the question of whether or not the new method has a
      majority stopping rule or not. In normal Hare it can't make any
      difference, but in the ER(whole) version it does.<br>
      <br>
      Without it the method is farcically vulnerable to Push-over
      strategy:<br>
      <br>
      "On 5/21/2014 , C.Benham wrote:<br>
      <br>
      45 A=C (sincere is A or A>B)<br>
      35 B>A<br>
      20 C>B<br>
      <br>
      B is the sincere IRV winner (and sincere CW), but if the method is
      ER-IRV(whole) then B is eliminated and A wins.<br>
      <br>
      (This example also works if you change the 45/35/20 numbers to,
      say, 49/48/3)."<br>
      <br>
      With a majority stopping rule this strategy doesn't work so well.
      In this example it would fail because C would get a score of 65 in
      the first round.<br>
      <br>
      With it the method fails Irrelevant Ballots Independence (like
      Bucklin).  That could perhaps be fixed by replacing the majority
      stopping rule with a Dominant Candidate stopping rule, i.e. stop
      when the leading candidate's score exceeds that candidate's
      maximum pairwise opposition score from any remaining candidate.<br>
      <br>
      The other thing I don't like about is that we lose Hare's  simple
      sincere zero-info. strategy of just ranking sincerely. With this
      method the voter should probably rank equal-top all the candidates
      they would approve if the method was Approval and just sincerely
      rank the rest.<br>
      <br>
      Chris B.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
    <p></p>
    <div>On 5/06/2024 6:36 am, Michael Ossipoff
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      <div dir="auto">In fact, some of us suggested to Richie allowing
        equal-ranking, each vote counted whole, & he immediately
        refused it.</div>
      <div><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 at 13:51
            Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" target="_blank">email9648742@gmail.com</a>>
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="auto">Presumably they’ll consult FairVote, unless
              they’ve already received FairVote’s advice.</div>
            <div dir="auto"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="auto">Richie was always very adamant about
              refusing any mitigation of IRV’s strategic trainwreck.</div>
            <div dir="auto"><br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 at
                  13:33 Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" target="_blank">email9648742@gmail.com</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                    <div class="gmail_quote">
                      <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 4,
                        2024 at 09:11 Richard, the VoteFair guy <<a href="mailto:electionmethods@votefair.org" target="_blank">electionmethods@votefair.org</a>>
                        wrote:<br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On
                        6/4/2024 4:53 AM, Michael Ossipoff wrote:<br>
                         > Are you saying that the IRV that the 
                        November referendum would enact<br>
                         > allows & counts equal ranking of
                        several candidates.<br>
                        <br>
                        YES<br>
                        <br>
                         > …&, if it’s “Yes”, then how does it
                        count that equal ranking?<br>
                        <br>
                        It avoids this "counting detail" by not
                        mentioning anything about it.</blockquote>
                      <div dir="auto"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="auto"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="auto">If that’s true, then it’s evasive
                        & doesn’t offer or guarantee shit.</div>
                      <div dir="auto"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="auto">Vote no on RCV in Oregon &
                        Nevada.</div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div class="gmail_quote">
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex" dir="auto"><br>
                        <br>
                        Richard Fobes<br>
                        the VoteFair guy<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        On 6/4/2024 4:53 AM, Michael Ossipoff wrote:<br>
                        >   VoteFair Guy:<br>
                        > <br>
                        > Are you saying that the IRV that the
                         November referendum would enact <br>
                        > allows & counts equal ranking of
                        several candidates.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > That’s a yes or no question.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > Yes or no?<br>
                        > <br>
                        > …&, if it’s “Yes”, then how does it
                        count that equal ranking?<br>
                        > <br>
                        > Does every one of your top-ranked
                        candidates get a point (“vote”) from <br>
                        > your ballot, or does each of them get a
                        useless little fraction of a <br>
                        > vote divided among them?  …You know,
                        split-vote in a method that you say <br>
                        > doesn’t have a split-vote problem.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > An no, don’t embark on some long evasion or
                        preface. I doubt that people <br>
                        > will be willing to search for your answer
                        in a long mass of <br>
                        > meaning-mystery text.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > The reason I ask is, you’ve been promoting
                        the referendum as what it <br>
                        > would be if were something different from
                        what it is.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        > On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 17:41 Richard, the
                        VoteFair guy <br>
                        > <<a href="mailto:electionmethods@votefair.org" target="_blank">electionmethods@votefair.org</a>
                        <mailto:<a href="mailto:electionmethods@votefair.org" target="_blank">electionmethods@votefair.org</a>>>
                        wrote:<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Below the dotted line is the beginning
                        of my open letter to STAR voting<br>
                        >     promoters.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Here's some background info for the
                        benefit of election-method forum<br>
                        >     readers:<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     In November, throughout Oregon, Oregon
                        voters will vote to approve or<br>
                        >     defeat a referendum that adopts ranked
                        choice voting for electing<br>
                        >     Oregon<br>
                        >     governors and Oregon members of
                        Congress (and the Oregon secretary of<br>
                        >     state).  This referendum was passed by
                        the Oregon state legislature!<br>
                        >     This is huge!  All other states that
                        have adopted ranked choice voting<br>
                        >     have needed to gather signatures to get
                        their initiatives on their<br>
                        >     state's ballots.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Here's the full text of the referendum:<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     <a href="https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2023R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/HB2004/Enrolled" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2023R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/HB2004/Enrolled</a>
                        <<a href="https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2023R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/HB2004/Enrolled" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2023R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/HB2004/Enrolled</a>><br>
                        > <br>
                        >     The vote-counting details begin on page
                        2 in Section 4.  Importantly<br>
                        >     the<br>
                        >     words do not mention anything about
                        "overvotes."  Also importantly it's<br>
                        >     well-worded so the counting details can
                        be refined in the future.  Also<br>
                        >     it gives explicit permission to later
                        adopt the single-transferable<br>
                        >     vote<br>
                        >     (STV) for electing city-council members
                        (which Portland recently<br>
                        >     adopted) or for electing Oregon state
                        legislators.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Note:  The following "open letter" is
                        long because election-method<br>
                        >     reform is not a simple topic, and
                        numerous misunderstandings are<br>
                        >     involved.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     ........................<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Here's my open letter to STAR voting
                        promoters:<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     The recent defeat of STAR voting in
                        Eugene triggered a conversation on<br>
                        >     the r/EndFPTP subreddit in which the
                        comments from you, the<br>
                        >     promoters of<br>
                        >     STAR voting, reveal some
                        misunderstandings.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     These misunderstandings easily could
                        lead to expensive or embarrassing<br>
                        >     mistakes regarding support for, or
                        opposition against, the upcoming<br>
                        >     statewide Oregon November referendum
                        that will adopt ranked choice<br>
                        >     voting for some Oregon elections.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     I'll start with areas where you, the
                        STAR voting promoters, have<br>
                        >     correctly identified relevant
                        information.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * Yes, the FairVote organization has a
                        long history of promoting<br>
                        >     misrepresentations.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * Yes, (as far as I know) the FairVote
                        organization was a big source of<br>
                        >     money that paid for "vote-no" postal
                        flyers mailed to Eugene voters.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * Yes, those flyers helped defeat the
                        STAR voting initiative.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * Yes, it's likely that FairVote helped
                        pay for "opposition" arguments<br>
                        >     in the Eugene Voter's Pamphlet, which
                        was mailed to every Eugene voter.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * Yes, those statements of opposition
                        in the voter's pamphlet helped<br>
                        >     defeat the STAR voting initiative.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     (E-M forum aside: Here's the link to
                        the Eugene Voter's Pamphlet:<br>
                        >     <a href="https://www.eugene-or.gov/DocumentCenter/View/74017/0524-Voters-Pamphlet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.eugene-or.gov/DocumentCenter/View/74017/0524-Voters-Pamphlet</a>
                        <<a href="https://www.eugene-or.gov/DocumentCenter/View/74017/0524-Voters-Pamphlet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.eugene-or.gov/DocumentCenter/View/74017/0524-Voters-Pamphlet</a>>
                        )<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     However, I get the impression you, the
                        promoters of STAR voting, are<br>
                        >     overlooking the most important issues
                        that account for why STAR voting<br>
                        >     was defeated.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Here are the issues I suggest you
                        re-consider more carefully.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * You seem to believe the FairVote
                        organization is your enemy, without<br>
                        >     understanding they are basically just
                        supplying money to the huge(!)<br>
                        >     number of Oregon voters who understand
                        that ranked choice ballots are<br>
                        >     much better than STAR ballots.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * Opposition statements in the voter's
                        pamphlet pointed out the<br>
                        >     unfairness of score voting during the
                        first step of STAR counting, when<br>
                        >     a majority-supported candidate can fail
                        to reach the runoff round.  Yet<br>
                        >     your rebuttals about majority support
                        focused on the top-two runoff<br>
                        >     step, which is not what they were
                        criticizing.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * You seem to dismiss the important
                        difference between your<br>
                        >     single-winner method and a good
                        multi-winner method such as the<br>
                        >     single-transferable vote (STV).  STV
                        really does increase<br>
                        >     representation<br>
                        >     for minorities, women, etc.  In fact
                        STV with three seats per district<br>
                        >     (as chosen for Portland) guarantees
                        representation for at least 66<br>
                        >     percent of that district's voters. 
                        Yes, a single-winner method such as<br>
                        >     STAR or instant-runoff voting (IRV)
                        increases this representation<br>
                        >     guarantee from zero to 50 percent.  But
                        that does not reach the higher<br>
                        >     level that minorities want, and
                        deserve.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * Pointing out you have a few minority
                        advocates who support STAR<br>
                        >     voting<br>
                        >     is a weak defense against the attacks
                        from the many(!) minority voter<br>
                        >     advocates in Portland who have been
                        learning about the<br>
                        >     single-transferable vote (STV). 
                        Remember STV will be used in Portland<br>
                        >     in November to elect our city
                        councilors.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * Your suggestion that ranked choice
                        voting is vulnerable to vote<br>
                        >     splitting, but STAR voting is not
                        vulnerable to vote splitting, is a<br>
                        >     lie.  This lie undermines your
                        credibility for all your other claims.<br>
                        >     If you try to define "vote splitting"
                        as something that STAR voting<br>
                        >     avoids and instant-runoff voting can
                        fail, then you are guilty of the<br>
                        >     same kind of misrepresentation that
                        comes from the FairVote<br>
                        >     organization.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * The voter's-pamphlet statements in
                        support of STAR voting wasted lots<br>
                        >     of words talking about issues that are
                        not as important as the above<br>
                        >     issues.  In my opinion these minor
                        issues include the size of<br>
                        >     summarized<br>
                        >     ballot data, how simple it is for
                        calculating, the monotonicity<br>
                        >     criterion, whether it works well among
                        friends, etc.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Clarification:  Yes, STAR voting is
                        well-designed for use among friends<br>
                        >     where religious, dietary, etc. concerns
                        can be expressed strongly, and<br>
                        >     where selfish people can be excluded,
                        and where voting is conducted<br>
                        >     as a<br>
                        >     single round of ballot marking and
                        counting.  However the<br>
                        >     strength-of-expression advantage
                        becomes a disadvantage in governmental<br>
                        >     elections.  That's because voters get
                        extra influence by exaggerating<br>
                        >     their ratings, such as not marking any
                        candidates at levels 2 and 3.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Now let's talk about possible future
                        collaborations, and barriers to<br>
                        >     collaboration.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     I too dislike the FairVote
                        organization.  I've been fighting against<br>
                        >     them for three decades.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Yet if the FairVote organization offers
                        to pay the fee (about $2,000 I<br>
                        >     believe) to publish in the Oregon
                        Voter's Pamphlet a statement from me,<br>
                        >     Richard Fobes, the VoteFair guy, in
                        support of the November referendum,<br>
                        >     I will gladly accept their assistance.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Or if the FairVote organization asks
                        for permission to use my name as<br>
                        >     being in support of the upcoming
                        November referendum, I will agree<br>
                        >     -- if<br>
                        >     the promotion does not imply blind
                        support for the FairVote<br>
                        >     organization<br>
                        >     and does not imply the Burlington and
                        Alaska elections yielded the<br>
                        >     correct winner.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     I'm open to this collaboration because
                        they, the FairVote organization,<br>
                        >     and I, the VoteFair guy, agree that
                        RANKED CHOICE BALLOTS are needed<br>
                        >     for<br>
                        >     election-method reform.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Reaching areas of agreement, and
                        working in collaboration, is how<br>
                        >     election-method reform is going to
                        happen.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     This brings us to the core point in
                        this letter.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     "Voters must be allowed to mark two or
                        more candidates at the same<br>
                        >     preference level."<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     These are the words I spoke to the
                        Oregon legislative "rules" committee<br>
                        >     several years ago, back when the
                        FairVote organization was<br>
                        >     attempting to<br>
                        >     push their flawed idea of how they
                        think ranked choice ballots<br>
                        >     should be<br>
                        >     counted.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Because of your testimony against that
                        flawed FairVote bill, and<br>
                        >     because<br>
                        >     of my opposition, the Oregon lawyer who
                        writes these bills later worked<br>
                        >     with Oregon election-method experts to
                        create the dramatically improved<br>
                        >     wording that is now in the November
                        referendum.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     The referendum wording does not contain
                        any mention of "overvotes."<br>
                        >     This is huge!  Of course "overvote" is
                        FairVote's terminology for<br>
                        >     marking two or more candidates in the
                        same choice column.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     This means you, the fans of STAR
                        voting, can take credit for<br>
                        >     dramatically improving election methods
                        here in Oregon!<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     If you want, you can think of this
                        refinement as a concession by the<br>
                        >     fans of the FairVote organization.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Or you can spin it as a FairVote "lie"
                        that is finally being exposed.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     The result is that, possibly in 2028
                        when we have the first statewide<br>
                        >     Oregon election using ranked choice
                        ballots, we can be using software<br>
                        >     that correctly counts so-called
                        "overvotes."<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     As a reminder, when a voter marks two
                        candidates at the same preference<br>
                        >     level, and when the counting reaches
                        that pattern, that ballot can be<br>
                        >     paired with another ballot that has the
                        same equivalent pattern, and<br>
                        >     one<br>
                        >     of those two ballots is counted as
                        support for one of those two<br>
                        >     candidates, and the other ballot is
                        counted as support for the other<br>
                        >     candidate.  (Software can simulate this
                        counting using decimal numbers<br>
                        >     and rounding down to integers, but
                        certified election software must not<br>
                        >     use the decimal-number shortcut.)<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     The remaining barrier to this correct
                        counting of mythical "overvotes"<br>
                        >     is the lack of "certified" ballot data
                        against which upgraded election<br>
                        >     software can be tested.  Writing
                        software is easy, but getting it<br>
                        >     certified requires certified data.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     The Oregon lawyer who wrote most of the
                        referendum wording calls this<br>
                        >     "overvote" issue a "counting detail."<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Why is this "counting detail" so
                        important?<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     This software refinement eliminates a
                        valid criticism that you, STAR<br>
                        >     voting promoters, have against
                        FairVote's version of instant-runoff<br>
                        >     voting.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Your criticism shows up in your recent
                        pro-STAR scholarly article where<br>
                        >     the authors (Quinn, Wolk, and Ogren)
                        misrepresent ranked choice ballots<br>
                        >     to be "user unfriendly."  It's a
                        misrepresentation because it does not<br>
                        >     apply to ranked choice voting when
                        mythical "overvotes" are correctly<br>
                        >     counted.  (There's another related
                        user-friendly issue I'll get to<br>
                        >     shortly.)<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     (E-M forum aside:  Here's a link to
                        that scholarly article:<br>
                        >     <a href="https://doi.org/10.1007/s10602-022-09389-3" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://doi.org/10.1007/s10602-022-09389-3</a><br>
                        >     <<a href="https://doi.org/10.1007/s10602-022-09389-3" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://doi.org/10.1007/s10602-022-09389-3</a>>
                        )<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Yes, your "user unfriendly" criticism
                        does apply when voters are<br>
                        >     told to<br>
                        >     avoid "overvotes."  Especially when a
                        voter wants to rank a strongly<br>
                        >     disliked candidate as the voter's last
                        choice, and there are not as<br>
                        >     many<br>
                        >     choice columns as candidates.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     However, after mythical "overvotes" are
                        counted correctly, election<br>
                        >     data<br>
                        >     will reveal a big decrease in "spoiled"
                        ballots.  That will undermine<br>
                        >     part of your characterization of ranked
                        choice ballots as being "user<br>
                        >     unfriendly."<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Furthermore, ranked choice ballots with
                        no "overvote" limitation will<br>
                        >     allow a voter to RATE the candidates.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Just like on a score ballot!<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     This means the voters who think STAR
                        ballots are easier to mark will be<br>
                        >     able to mark their ranked choice ballot
                        as if it were a STAR ballot!<br>
                        >     They just need to look into a mirror --
                        to reverse the left-to-right<br>
                        >     orientation difference -- and ignore
                        the column labels -- words instead<br>
                        >     of stars and numbers.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     STAR voting fans correctly point out
                        that some people prefer to<br>
                        >     think in<br>
                        >     terms of ratings rather than rankings. 
                        (Other voters regard ratings as<br>
                        >     more difficult to assign.)<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     When so-called overvotes are allowed on
                        ranked choice ballots, a voter<br>
                        >     can use either a rating or ranking
                        approach, whichever they prefer!<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     To repeat, this correct counting of
                        so-called overvotes is allowed by<br>
                        >     the wording in November's referendum
                        because it avoids saying anything<br>
                        >     about how to handle those mythical
                        "overvotes."<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     There is yet another area were I, the
                        VoteFair guy, and you, the<br>
                        >     promoters of STAR voting, agree.  And
                        where we disagree with the<br>
                        >     FairVote organization.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     The candidate with the fewest
                        transferred votes is not always the least<br>
                        >     popular.  This is why the infamous
                        Burlington mayoral election, and the<br>
                        >     recent special Alaska election, elected
                        the wrong winner.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     You correctly recognize that this
                        unfairness is easy to see in Yee<br>
                        >     diagrams.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     You use this unfairness as evidence
                        that ranked choice ballots are<br>
                        >     "user<br>
                        >     unfriendly."  Specifically a close
                        election can require some voters to<br>
                        >     mark their ballot tactically (instead
                        of sincerely) to get the fairest<br>
                        >     ("correct") election result.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Misleadingly you fail to mention that
                        this "user unfriendliness" will<br>
                        >     disappear when better election software
                        becomes available.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     The FairVote organization foolishly
                        attempts to defend the failures in<br>
                        >     Burlington and Alaska.  This is part of
                        why lots of people like STAR<br>
                        >     voting, and why they regard the
                        FairVote organization as their enemy.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Fortunately the referendum wording is
                        written clearly, in a way that<br>
                        >     makes it possible to correct this
                        vote-counting flaw in the future.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     I believe that adding just two
                        sentences might be sufficient to correct<br>
                        >     this flaw in a few years when more
                        voters understand this subtle issue.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Specifically, the referendum's counting
                        method can be changed to<br>
                        >     implement Benham's method.  Just add
                        words such as: "If a round of<br>
                        >     counting has a pairwise winning
                        candidate, that candidate is elected; a<br>
                        >     pairwise winning candidate is a
                        candidate who would win every<br>
                        >     one-on-one<br>
                        >     contest against every remaining
                        candidate."<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Or, the wording can be changed to
                        implement the Ranked Choice Including<br>
                        >     Pairwise Elimination (RCIPE) method. 
                        In this case the added words<br>
                        >     would<br>
                        >     say something like:  "Pairwise losing
                        candidates are eliminated when<br>
                        >     they occur; a pairwise losing candidate
                        is a candidate who would lose<br>
                        >     every one-on-one contest against every
                        remaining candidate."<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     The result would be an election method
                        that overcomes the criticisms<br>
                        >     against the version of instant-runoff
                        voting that the FairVote<br>
                        >     organization foolishly tries to defend.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Hopefully you recognize that the
                        referendum can, with the addition of<br>
                        >     two sentences, yield all the most
                        significant election-method<br>
                        >     advantages<br>
                        >     of STAR voting.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Of course some of your STAR-voting fans
                        will not welcome this<br>
                        >     interpretation.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Yet you can claim credit for helping
                        Oregon adopt a<br>
                        >     reasonably-well-designed method that
                        significantly differs from what<br>
                        >     the<br>
                        >     FairVote organization originally tried
                        to push through the Oregon<br>
                        >     legislature.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Now I'll discuss a concern.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     I'm concerned that you, the STAR voting
                        promoters, might try to<br>
                        >     sabotage<br>
                        >     the November referendum.  That might be
                        based on your belief that the<br>
                        >     FairVote organization is your enemy,
                        and that this referendum is an<br>
                        >     opportunity to "fight back" after
                        losing the Eugene initiative.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Any such sabotage would be a sabotage
                        against all Oregon voters, the<br>
                        >     majority of whom want a better election
                        system.  Remember it would hurt<br>
                        >     Eugene voters too!<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     And remember the last election for
                        Oregon's governor in which we had to<br>
                        >     vote tactically to avoid vote splitting
                        because of independent<br>
                        >     candidate<br>
                        >     Betsy Johnson getting money from a Nike
                        co-founder.  The referendum<br>
                        >     will<br>
                        >     solve that vote-splitting problem.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     In case it's important, I did not
                        express opposition against the STAR<br>
                        >     voting initiative.  I remained neutral
                        because I used to know lots of<br>
                        >     people who live in Eugene and I want
                        them to get a better election<br>
                        >     system.  (I agree that STAR voting is
                        better than plurality.)  In fact,<br>
                        >     long ago, I used to tell friends in
                        Eugene we need to be using<br>
                        >     "order-of-preference ballots."  That
                        was back in the mid 1990's, long<br>
                        >     before STAR voting was invented in
                        Eugene, long before the name "ranked<br>
                        >     choice voting" was introduced, and back
                        when I attended so many dances<br>
                        >     in Eugene that some people in Eugene
                        thought I lived there.  Getting<br>
                        >     back to the present, I was genuinely
                        curious to see how Eugene voters<br>
                        >     would respond to your initiative.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     The Eugene defeat of STAR voting
                        reveals that a huge number of Eugene<br>
                        >     voters correctly recognize that ranked
                        choice ballots, with a<br>
                        >     well-chosen counting method, are better
                        than STAR ballots.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     In a bigger context, any attempts to
                        defeat the November referendum<br>
                        >     could lead to planet-wide suicide!<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Back in the 1970's, while living in
                        Corvallis, I did all the coursework<br>
                        >     for a master's degree in Atmospheric
                        Science at Oregon State<br>
                        >     University.<br>
                        >        Plus I did a summer fellowship at
                        the National Center for<br>
                        >     Atmospheric<br>
                        >     Research (NCAR) where I found and fixed
                        a bug in one of their climate<br>
                        >     models.  So I have known since the
                        1970s that our planet is in a very<br>
                        >     bad feedback loop where each loss of
                        snow and ice coverage at the north<br>
                        >     and south poles reduces the sunlight
                        reflected back into space, which<br>
                        >     increases solar absorption, which
                        increases the rate at which the snow<br>
                        >     and ice melt.  That understanding is
                        part of what motivates me to<br>
                        >     pursue<br>
                        >     election-method reform with a sense of
                        urgency.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Adopting a better election system is
                        the tipping point that will switch<br>
                        >     governments into climate-relevant
                        action instead of further delays.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Plus it will dramatically increase
                        economic prosperity for Oregon after<br>
                        >     we adopt a well-designed election
                        system for electing our Oregon state<br>
                        >     representatives.  (That's the next step
                        after adopting this<br>
                        >     referendum.)<br>
                        >        (And consider that better economic
                        prosperity will reduce<br>
                        >     domino-effect symptoms such as
                        homelessness and crime.)<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     In the meantime our Oregon state
                        legislature is giving us this huge<br>
                        >     opportunity to implement
                        election-method reform that will help<br>
                        >     civilization reach much higher levels
                        of democracy.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     At the national level, higher levels of
                        democracy will "uncrazify" our<br>
                        >     crazy U.S. elections so we can fill
                        Congress with problem-solving<br>
                        >     leaders.  They will replace any members
                        of Congress who persist in<br>
                        >     being<br>
                        >     puppets of their biggest campaign
                        contributors.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     You and the fans of STAR voting have
                        helped make this happen.  You<br>
                        >     pushed back against the FairVote
                        organization's flawed version of<br>
                        >     "their" vote-counting method so that
                        Oregon election-method experts<br>
                        >     could write a well-designed referendum.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     I'm aware that Mark Frohnmayer, who
                        provides lots of the funding to<br>
                        >     promote STAR voting, originally was a
                        fan of instant-runoff voting.<br>
                        >     That's because decades ago a friend in
                        Eugene sent me a clipping of the<br>
                        >     article in the Eugene Register Guard
                        newspaper about him promoting that<br>
                        >     method.  Since then, you, Mark
                        Frohnmayer, and I have seen and heard<br>
                        >     each other during verbal testimony to
                        the Oregon state legislature.  If<br>
                        >     you should want to meet via video to
                        ask any questions, I'm open to<br>
                        >     that<br>
                        >     form of communication.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     While looking up the correct spelling
                        for Frohnmayer I was reminded<br>
                        >     that<br>
                        >     Mark's father, Dave, lost an election
                        to become Oregon governor because<br>
                        >     of vote splitting (partly because of
                        spiteful funding to Al Mobley as a<br>
                        >     spoiler candidate).  That's sad because
                        Dave Frohnmayer would have been<br>
                        >     a great governor.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     In November we have an opportunity to
                        adopt an election system that, if<br>
                        >     it had been used back then, would have
                        elected Mark's father, Dave, in<br>
                        >     spite of the presence of an intentional
                        spoiler candidate.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     All of you who promote STAR voting have
                        lots to be proud of.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * You have helped educate huge numbers
                        of voters about the need for<br>
                        >     better ballots.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * You have taught huge numbers of
                        voters about vote splitting.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * Wisely you have pushed to allow a
                        voter to mark more than one<br>
                        >     candidate at the same preference level.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     * You have exposed the FairVote
                        organization's lie that the candidate<br>
                        >     with the fewest transferred votes is
                        always least popular.<br>
                        > <br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Let's build on the election-method
                        reform foundation we have been<br>
                        >     building together throughout many
                        years.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     I look forward to working with you,
                        rather than against you, as we take<br>
                        >     advantage of the huge election reform
                        the Oregon legislature has wisely<br>
                        >     given to us.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     We don't have time for any more
                        misunderstandings.  Glaciers are<br>
                        >     melting<br>
                        >     faster than elections are being
                        improved.<br>
                        > <br>
                        >     Richard Fobes<br>
                        >     The VoteFair guy</blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex" dir="auto"><br>
                        >     ----<br>
                        >     Election-Methods mailing list - see <a href="https://electorama.com/em" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://electorama.com/em</a><br>
                        >     <<a href="https://electorama.com/em" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://electorama.com/em</a>>
                        for list info<br>
                        > <br>
                        ----<br>
                        Election-Methods mailing list - see <a href="https://electorama.com/em" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://electorama.com/em</a>
                        for list info<br>
                      </blockquote>
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      <pre>----
Election-Methods mailing list - see <a href="https://electorama.com/em" target="_blank">https://electorama.com/em</a> for list info
</pre>
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