<div dir="auto">OK, so SFC prevents offensive truncation from defeating the Condorcet winner, while minimal defense provides a simple way to stop order-reversal?</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, May 31, 2024 at 4:01 PM Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Evidently, then, SFC merely says that the candidate can’t win without order-reversal, while Minimal-Defense says he can’t win at all if the minimal defensive-strategy is used.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It seems to me that Eppley’s Minimal-Defense was the votes-only criterion based on SDSC.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">…& that SDSC was the original, preference-&-sincerity version.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I preferred preference-&-sincerity because of its universal applicability, where votes-only had to stipulate a balloting.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, May 31, 2024 at 12:33 Chris Benham <<a href="mailto:cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au" target="_blank">cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<p><font size="4">Why are we having a public discussion about a
voting method criterion without anyone giving its definition,
and with apparently most of the participants in the discussion
knowing nothing about it besides its name?</font><br>
<br>
<a href="https://electowiki.org/wiki/Strategy-free_criterion" target="_blank">https://electowiki.org/wiki/Strategy-free_criterion</a><br>
<br>
</p><blockquote type="cite">
<p style="margin:0.5em 0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><font size="4">The<span> </span><b>strategy-free criterion</b><span> </span>is
a<span> </span><a href="https://electowiki.org/wiki/Voting_system_criterion" title="Voting system criterion" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(51,102,204);background:none" target="_blank">voting
system criterion</a><span> </span>for evaluating<span> </span><a href="https://electowiki.org/wiki/Voting_system" title="Voting system" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(51,102,204);background:none" target="_blank">voting
systems</a>.</font></p>
<h2 style="color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:1em 0px 0.25em;padding:0px;overflow:hidden;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(162,169,177);font-weight:normal;font-family:"Linux Libertine",Georgia,Times,serif;line-height:1.375;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><font size="4"><span id="m_-5229649647197194953m_-2555177099667943496Definitions">Definitions</span></font></h2>
<p style="margin:0.5em 0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><font size="4">A sincere vote is one with no falsified preferences
or preferences left unspecified when the election method
allows them to be specified (in addition to the preferences
already specified).</font></p>
<p style="margin:0.5em 0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><font size="4">One candidate is preferred over another candidate
if, in a one-on-one competition, more voters prefer the
first candidate than prefer the other candidate.</font></p>
<p style="margin:0.5em 0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><font size="4">If one candidate is preferred over each of the
other candidates, that candidate is called "Condorcet
candidate" or "Condorcet winner".</font></p>
<h2 style="color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:1em 0px 0.25em;padding:0px;overflow:hidden;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(162,169,177);font-weight:normal;font-family:"Linux Libertine",Georgia,Times,serif;line-height:1.375;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><font size="4"><span id="m_-5229649647197194953m_-2555177099667943496Statement_of_criterion">Statement of criterion</span></font></h2>
<blockquote style="background:rgb(249,249,249);border-left:4px solid rgb(234,236,240);padding:8px 32px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">
<p style="margin:0px"><font size="4">If a Condorcet
candidate exists, and if a majority prefers this candidate
to another candidate, then the other candidate should not
win if that majority votes sincerely and no other voter
falsifies any preferences.</font></p>
</blockquote>
<p style="margin:0.5em 0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><font size="4">In a ranked method, it is nearly equivalent to say:</font></p>
<blockquote style="background:rgb(249,249,249);border-left:4px solid rgb(234,236,240);padding:8px 32px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">
<p style="margin:0px"><font size="4">If more than half of
the voters rank<span> </span><i>x</i><span> </span>above<span> </span><i>y</i>,
and there is no candidate<span> </span><i>z</i><span> </span>whom
more than half of the voters rank above<span> </span><i>x</i>,
then<span> </span><i>y</i><span> </span>must not be
elected.</font></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<font size="4"><br>
I think this evolved into the Minimal Defense criterion, the
"votes-only version" of which says that if more than half the
voters vote A over B and B no higher than equal-bottom then B
can't win.</font></div></blockquote></div></div><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p>
<div>On 31/05/2024 9:46 pm, Michael Ossipoff
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">Some time ago, I wrote a criterion that I called
Strategy-Free-Criterion (SFC).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Is that what you were referring to?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">It was about a circumstance in which wv Condorcet
is strategy-free. At that time, autodeterence hadn’t been
considered.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">SFC didn’t catch-on, & I haven’t heard mention
of it lately, & so I don’t know it’s definition. But wv
Condorcet is strategy-free in a meaningful sense.</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, May 31, 2024 at
05:07 Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" target="_blank">email9648742@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 29, 2024
at 14:15 Closed Limelike Curves <<a>closed.limelike.curves@gmail.com</a>> </div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Ppwrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I'm trying to work out how the strategy-free
criterion actually relates to strategy, because it
just sounds like it means the majority-Condorcet
criterion ("if a candidate majority-beats every
other, they have to win if everyone is honest"). <a class="gmail_plusreply" id="m_-5229649647197194953m_-2555177099667943496m_3749243691140155182m_3764866669967271283m_3208403200595893820plusReplyChip-1">@Michael Ossipoff</a> ?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"> Closed, isn’t “Strategy-Free Criterion”
your new name for FBC.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">It’s a very inaccurate name. FBC-complying
methods aren’t strategy-free in any sense.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"> But they’re free of any need for *drastic*
defensive strategy (favorite-burial or any defensive
order-reversal).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">You want strategy-free? The wv Condorcet
methods, such as RP(wv) & MinMax(wv), are
strategy-free in a meaningful sense…effectively free of
need for any defensive strategy…due to their
autodeterence.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div></blockquote></div><div><blockquote type="cite">
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div>
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