<div dir="ltr">



















<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Someone keeps repeating that the
voters shouldn’t have to vote strategically. He wants the method to do it all
for us, after we merely state our sincere-rankings.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">That’s of course a common attitude: <span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…wanting a high-tech,
computation-intensive,<span>  </span>computer-dependent
system to do it all for us, taking all the actual choosing responsibility off
of us.<span>  </span>…sheltering & isolating us
from the choice.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">I’ve already agreed that a
completely legalistic system like a good Condorcet method is probably the best
thing for the inimical electorate in our public-political elections.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">...all else being equal (as KM
said).<span>  </span><span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">I pointed out that all is NOT equal.
As desirable as it would be for our inimical public-political elections, the
automatic machine that does it all for us, to isolate & shelter us from the
choosing, comes at too high a price in our public-political elections.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Condorcet for public political
elections has a number of problems, with count-security as the main & most
serious problem. I spoke of that before, but it just didn’t seem to get across.<span>  </span>Hello?<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Is it that we don’t believe that count-fraud
is a genuine problem…or is it just, so strongly do we want to believe what we
believe, that we’ve convinced ourselves that we didn’t hear?<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Claims that Condorcet is transparent
consisted of handwaving that disregarded the fact that Condorcet requires many,
many times more computation than does Approval.<span>   </span>…& requires many, many times more count
totals be tallied, stored, & transmitted to central-counting.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…a humungously, prohibitively,
bigger & more computation-intensive count.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">I’ll ask this for the 3^rd
time: <span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">How would like you to handount-audit
a Condorcet count for a many-candidate national presidential election?<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">As for the belief (if such a belief
is what this is about) that count-fraud isn’t a problem, I’ll repeat this;<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Look up the issues of Harper’s
Magazine that came out after each of G.W. Bushes two elections (2000 &
2004).<span>  </span>Mountains of evidence for
widespread count-fraud. Check out the two Harpers articles.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">One; thing they mentioned was that a
supplier of voting-machines promised to “deliver” the election to Dubya. One of
the two Harper’s articles will give you details about that.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">It would be much better to trust the
voters to use Approval well, than to trust all of the count-personnel to not
perpetrate<span>  </span>count-fraud in the elaborate
computation-intensive Condorcet count.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">There might be a desire to have it
all done for us by a computer, but that comes at too high a price.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…& that’s not counting Approval’s
other advantages, including incomparably less expensive & easier
explanation, definition, proposal, enactment,<span> 
</span>& administration…in addition to the much better count-security that
I spoke of above.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">How bad, in your perception, is it
for voters to have to make the choice for themselves instead of just telling
their preferences & having it done for us?<span> 
</span>The Appoval-opponent I spoke of keeps saying that he wouldn’t know
whether to approve a maybe but maybe-not needed 2^nd-choice. A
dilemma: Risk someone worse than him winning, or risk helping him beat your
favorite? That critic complains that that’s unacceptable. <span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Yes, with any method other than the
wv Condorcet methods, you don’t know what your objectively optimal vote
is.<span>  </span>Neither do any of the other voters,
so don’t worry about it !!<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">That critic seems to believe that it’s
necessary to know your objectively-optimal vote. <span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">That’s a misbelief.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">As I’ve said, probability &
therefore expectation & its maximization depend of what information you
have<span>  </span>& are using. <span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">No, you can’t know your
objectively-optimal vote.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">But you can vote to maximize your
expectation, based on the information that you have & are using.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">I’ve discussed that at length in
previous posts, & it probably isn’t necessary to again post about ways of
choosing how to vote in Approval.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">But, just summarize:<span>  </span>It’s easy.<span> 
</span>Whichever of the various ways you prefer to use, for choosing whom to
approve, it’s easy.<span>   </span>…& no, it doesn’t
require knowing your objectively-optimal vote.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Some of us have been so spoiled by
what wv Condorcet can achieve, in doing it all for us, with us only needing to
express our sincere preference-ordering, that we’ve come to believe that that’s
necessary.<span>  </span>…having it all done for us,
to shelter & isolate us from the choice.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">I’ve many times pointed out that
Approval’s Myerson-Weber equilibrium is the voter-median.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">i.e. Approval soon homes in on where
the Condorcet-Winner is.<span>  </span><span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Have we forgotten that?<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">It seems to me that, in every one of
EM’s polls, including the recent one, Approval chose the CW.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Have we forgotten that?<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">The simple, reliable handtool works
just fine.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">I should add that I like wv
Condorcet (RP(wv) & MinMax(wv) ) for polls, because of course they look at
more information.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">…& I’d like them for
public-political elections too, were it not for the abovestated <span> </span>problems of the rank-methods.<span></span></span></p>





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