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<p>I am happy with a 2-day extension.</p>
<p>I think the poll could have been conceived a bit better in the
first place, taking account of ballot restrictions in the US that
are fixed or difficult to change. We could have had parallel
polls for different ballot types, including those we most like and
those we might have to put up with.<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/05/2024 12:19 pm, Michael
Ossipoff wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, May 10, 2024 at
18:13 Closed Limelike Curves <<a
href="mailto:closed.limelike.curves@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">closed.limelike.curves@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">We could just postpone it.</div>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">I suggested a two day extension of the
voting-deadline.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">I take your suggestion as a second to that
motion.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">But in any case I don't know what this
poll is supposed to accomplish.</div>
<div dir="auto">1. The number of methods is so large
that everyone's ballot is missing half the methods…</div>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">That’s expected. In many-candidate elections,
people usually won’t rank all of the alternatives. No
problem. The rankings express their preferences among their
most preferred.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">It isn’t clear why you perceive that as a
problem.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto"> I presume on an oversight, because
there's just no way people have that strong of an
opinion on </div>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">Meaning unclear. I didn’t expect so many
nominees. So what. Approval & the Condorcet complying
methods don’t have a problem with lots of candidates.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">2. <span
style="font-family:-apple-system,helveticaneue">The
pairwise matrix is going to end up so degenerate as
to be useless.</span></div>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">Unsupported statement, unclear in meaning.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:-apple-system,helveticaneue">It'll
be full of cycles and ties. </span></div>
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</blockquote>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Top-cycles for 1st place are quite rare.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">CIVS has done lots of pills with many
candidate’s, with no problems.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">With many candidates, & successive counts
among the remaining no winners (to determine the
finishing-order, the social-ranking), there could be a
spontaneous sincere cycle somewhere in the finishing-order
determination. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Schulze & RP(WC) are regarded by many as
the best for sincere cycles. …regarded as meeting the most
criteria with a consensus of importance.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Closed, when arriving at a forum, the standard
advice is to listen & ask questions for a while before
asserting. You’re doing far too much asserting, when you
should instead be listening & asking.</div>
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<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:-apple-system,helveticaneue"></span></div>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">The number of voters is so small, and
the number of outcomes is sufficiently large, that the
pairwise matrix is effectively meaningless and
dominated by noise. </div>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Nonsense. It aggregates the expressed
pairwise-preferences, to find the CW, the candidate who’d
beat everything else in 2-way votes.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">In the event of no CW, that absence will be
shown. …& Schulz & RP(wv) will choose in the best
accordance with established criteria.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">The issue with this poll is it approached
the topic as a question of voting when it isn't. </div>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">:-) I don’t know what *your* question is. If
it’s different, feel free to ask it.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">Good voting methods aren't always good
statistical methods.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">If I had cardinal ballots, I could fit a
multilevel hierarchical model and possibly get
something meaningful out of it. But as is the data
here is effectively useless.</div>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">As I said, you assert far too much. Whoa,
we’re getting ahead of ourselves, Cowboy. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">You spoke of “noise”. You’re making a nuisance
noise of yourself.</div>
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<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, May 10,
2024 at 3:10 PM Kristofer Munsterhjelm <<a
href="mailto:km_elmet@t-online.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">km_elmet@t-online.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">On
2024-05-10 23:49, Toby Pereira wrote:<br>
> It probably would have been better to have
more warning for the <br>
> impending end of the poll. I'm not going to
have time to give this a <br>
> proper go now. I know it has been referred to
previously, but with so <br>
> many posts on the topic, it's not that easy
to find.<br>
<br>
That's entirely understandable. Sorry about that;
in retrospect I should <br>
have posted that earlier.<br>
<br>
-km<br>
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