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<p><br>
Kevin,<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre
style="white-space: pre-wrap; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">The RCIPE advocate only asks for a rule change that seems modest and logical within the context of IRV: If the candidate was destined to lose *in IRV* anyway, then eliminate him sooner. </pre>
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<br>
Why? All the IRV non-winners were "destined to lose", and the
easiest way to identify them is to complete the IRV count. That
seems easier than looking for Condorcet Losers.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre
style="white-space: pre-wrap; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">In exchange, RCIPE achieves quite a lot.</pre>
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Really? As a modification of IRV how much does it "achieve" in
comparison with what it loses? Rescuing the occasional Condorcet
winner to make the method a lot more complicated and trash a lot
of IRV's popular criterion compliances??<br>
<br>
I can't see how looking for Condorcet losers is any way easier
than looking for Condorcet winners. So why don't we just do that
(before each elimination, among the remaining candidates) instead?<br>
<br>
That method (Benham) is a Condorcet method and quite a bit simpler
to operate than RCIPE. So the argument for RCIPE versus Benham
is ...what??<br>
<br>
Can anyone show us a single example in which RCIPE appears to give
a better result (or in some way behave better than) Benham?<br>
<br>
Chris B.<br>
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</pre>
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<b
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">Kevin
Venzke</b><span
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href="mailto:election-methods%40lists.electorama.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BEM%5D%20Poll%2C%20preliminary%20ballots&In-Reply-To=%3C815647778.5049429.1713951596021%40mail.yahoo.com%3E"
title="[EM] Poll, preliminary ballots"
style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal;">stepjak
at yahoo.fr</a><br
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<i
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Apr 24 02:39:56 PDT 2024</i>
<hr
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<pre
style="white-space: pre-wrap; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">Hi Kristofer,
Kristofer Munsterhjelm <<a
href="http://lists.electorama.com/listinfo.cgi/election-methods-electorama.com">km_elmet at t-online.de</a>> a écrit :
><i> What do you think of BTR-IRV in that respect? Or Borda-elimination?
</i>><i> Neither explicitly checks for a Condorcet winner.
</i>
I don't think these are similar. The RCIPE advocate only asks for a rule change that
seems modest and logical within the contoext of IRV: If the candidate was destined to
lose *in IRV* anyway, then eliminate him soner. In exchange, RCIPE achieves quite a
lot.
With BTR-IRV I don't think any IRV fan will be persuaded, as it can't be explained
why the bottom two candidates should challenge each other in a way that normally
only occurs in IRV's final two. And if I put my Condorcet hat back on, I don't get
it either, why it would make sense to arrive at Condorcet that way.
><i> Trying not to spam, but I also forgot to say: Copeland-elimination
</i>><i> should be Condorcet and it works like RCIPE in the absence of any lower
</i>><i> cycles. (Break the tie by first preference count when there is a cycle.)
</i>
Sure. I think there is a world where RCIPE is the right thing to advocate, and
that's the cleverness I see there. But this could also be true for Copeland
elimination.
Kevin
votingmethods.net</pre>
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