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    <p>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">e.g. If there are unacceptable candidates, then
          just give max to the acceptables, & zero to the
          unacceptables.</div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      Because STAR is much more vulnerable to Pushover than Hare, that
      may not always be the best strategy.  You might do better<br>
      to give max or near-max to an an unacceptable (or more than one)
      that won't pairwise beat the anticipated acceptable<br>
      finalist. <br>
      <br>
      And/or you may do better to give one or more of the acceptables
      zero so as to keep them out of the final where they will lose to<br>
      unacceptable.  <br>
      <br>
      You are torn between trying to get two acceptables into the final
      versus trying to get the acceptable versus unacceptable<br>
      match-up that will most likely result in the acceptable winning.
      And if you are trying to do the latter you are torn between giving<br>
      max to a turkey unacceptable (to maximise his/her chance of making
      it into the final) and giving near-max (to maximise the chance<br>
      that the turkey doesn't win in the final).<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div dir="auto">IRV? Try to rank the acceptables in order of
          winnability. …trying & hoping to match the ranking-order
          of the other preferrers of some of your acceptables.</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      It sounds like you are talking about a situation where there are
      no known clear front-runners and the supporters of the candidates
      you deem acceptable don't<br>
      fully agree with you about which candidates are acceptable and
      which are not.<br>
      <br>
      Because if they do agree with you then they will all just vote the
      same set of acceptable candidates above all the others and benefit
      from the method's compliance with<br>
      Clone-Winner.  And if there are known front-runners and you insist
      on voting super-safe then  I suppose you can top-rank the same
      Compromise candidate you<br>
      would in FPP.<br>
      <br>
      Not a big burden to lose sleep over and nothing like the STAR
      nightmare.  Overall the strategic risk of voting sincerely in Hare
      is much lower.<br>
      <br>
      Chris<br>
      <br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/04/2024 10:56 am, Michael
      Ossipoff wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAOKDY5A5tBeVsAGs7SCwPo=8VgU87Bp_dpDkdeG8Lb6cMr8Rhw@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at
            18:04 Chris Benham <<a
              href="mailto:cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au</a>>
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div>
              <p>Michael wrote:<br>
                <br>
              </p>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div dir="auto">But STAR is better than Hare because:</div>
                <div dir="auto"><br>
                </div>
                <div dir="auto">It retains some amount Score’s merit.</div>
              </blockquote>
              <br>
              No it doesn't.   Score meets Favorite Betrayal and
              Participation.  STAR trashes those just for Condorcet
              Loser. </div>
          </blockquote>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto">I said “some”, not “all”.</div>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto">e.g. If there are unacceptable candidates,
            then just give max to the acceptables, & zero to the
            unacceptables.</div>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto">IRV? Try to rank the acceptables in order of
            winnability. …trying & hoping to match the ranking-order
            of the other preferrers of some of your acceptables.</div>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto">Questionable guesswork. An intractable
            strategic morass.</div>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="auto"><br>
              <br>
              I could even make up a new criterion just to encapsulate
              the horror of STAR.<br>
              <br>
              The Favourite Ultra-Betrayal Criterion:<br>
              <br>
              *Voters should never have any strategic incentive to vote
              their sincere favourite as low as possible*.<br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto">Yes,, & isn’t that true with *any* runoff?
            It occurred to me too, I don’t like it. I much prefer Score
            to STAR.  … completely reject runoff with Approval.  …unless
            a jurisdiction insists on it.</div>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto">I much prefer Approval to Score,  for
            minimalness & unarbitrariness.</div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="auto"><br>
              Hare should be much easier to sell to anyone with any
              intelligence or common sense because STAR is obviously<br>
              so silly and arbitrary.</div>
          </blockquote>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto">See above.</div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="auto"><br>
              <br>
              Where as Hare just seeks to replace the Single
              Non-Transferable Vote with the Single Transferable Vote,
              keeping compliance<br>
              with Plurality, Dominant Candidate, Clone-Loser,
              Later-no-Harm and Later-no-Help but losing Participation
              and Mono-Raise to gain <br>
              Dominant Coalition (and therefore Majority for Solid
              Coalitions) and Dominant Mutual Third and Clone-Winner.<br>
              <br>
              It has what Woodall referred to as a "maximal set of
              properties".  It's ok not to like it if you are a
              fundamentalist about some criterion<br>
              compliance it doesn't have (like Condorcet or FBC) but not
              to suggest that complete garbage like STAR is in some way
              preferable.</div>
            <div>
              <p><br>
                <br>
                Chris Benham<br>
                <br>
                <br>
              </p>
              <div>On 11/04/2024 5:04 am, Michael Ossipoff wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 9,
                      2024 at 17:31 Chris Benham <<a
                        href="mailto:cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au</a>>
                      wrote:</div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">[quote]</div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Score is Approval
                      with a  "I wish to weaken the effect of my vote
                      for the sake of being more sincere/expressive"
                      box/button.</div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">[/quote]</div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">If that’s how you
                      want to vote in Score, then suit yourself.</div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">The right use of
                      Score:</div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Use only min &
                      max ratings. i.e. Use Score as Approval.</div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">…with the
                      difference that, when it’s uncertain whether or
                      not a candidate deserves approval, you can give
                      hir partial approval, by an intermediate
                      point-rating.</div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Nice, sometimes
                      convenient, because, otherwise, the only way to
                      give someone partial approval would be
                      probabilistically.</div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">But Score loses
                      Approval’s absolute minimalness, & unique
                      unarbitrariness.</div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Much better to let
                      the voters deal with such things for themselves
                      with the absolutely minimal handtool, than to use
                      some arbitrary & (somewhat or greatly)
                      complicated definition, rule & count. …with
                      the consequent expense & count-fraud
                      vulnerability.</div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
                      <div>
                        <div lang="x-unicode">
                          <p dir="auto"> So it is strategically
                            equivalent to Approval while being more
                            complicated and less fair.</p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div dir="auto">More complicated, yes.</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">I strongly oppose a runoff for
                      Approval, but some jurisdictions might insist on
                      one. </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">…likewise Score. </div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">It’s true that it somewhat increases
                       Condorcet-efficiency & Social-Utility (SU),
                      but it brings great strategy-complication,
                      including the loss of FBC compliance.</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">But STAR is better than Hare
                      because:</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">It retains some amount Score’s
                      merit.</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">It’s much, much simpler than Hare,
                      resulting in much better count-fraud security.</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">It’s much less expensive to
                      administer & implement than Hare.</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">It’s much simpler to describe its
                      workings when proposing it.</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
                      <div>
                        <div lang="x-unicode">
                          <p dir="auto"><br>
                            <br>
                            And Approval has a quite good reputation
                            here because it meets Favorite Betrayal 
                            (aka FBC) and compared with FPP the winner<br>
                            will strongly tend to have higher social
                            utility and  be much more likely  a sincere
                            Condorcet winner.  Also, and not
                            unrelatedly, <br>
                            it has a bias toward centrists that some
                            people think is wonderful.<br>
                            <br>
                            But some people seem to think that adding a
                            Top-Two Runoff (automated in the case of
                            STAR) to Score (to make STAR) is just<br>
                            a harmless little gimmick that just makes
                            the method "a bit more accurate", brings it
                            into compliance with Condorcet Loser<br>
                            and so must make it more "Condorcet
                            efficient".   ("Sky-high" according to CLC
                            here).<br>
                            <br>
                            But actually it makes the method profoundly
                            different and very bad. It seems to me that
                            the inventors of STAR must have been <br>
                            motivated by three priorities:<br>
                            <br>
                            (1) the method isn't  Hare,  <br>
                            <br>
                            (2) the method, in a purely technical and
                            completely useless way, apparently meets
                            Mono-raise (aka Monotonicity).<br>
                            <br>
                            (3) subject to being saleable to and
                            understood by  not-so-deep thinkers, the
                            method be as bad as possible.<br>
                            <br>
                            From the "equal-vote" website:    <a
                              href="https://www.equal.vote/"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.equal.vote/</a><br>
                            <br>
                          </p>
                          <blockquote type="cite"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(47,47,47)">Ranked
                              Choice Voting, where voters rank
                              candidates in order of preference has been
                              lauded as a solution, but in elections
                              where the third candidate is actually
                              competitive,<span
                                style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span></span><a
                              rel="noopener"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhO6jfHPFQU&t=169s"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:bold;font-style:normal;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:underline;font-size:16px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(42,162,179)"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vote-splitting
                              remains a serious issue</a><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(47,47,47)"><span
                                style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span>and
                              RCV only offers a marginal improvement
                              compared to a primary and  general
                              election with Choose-One Plurality voting.</span></blockquote>
                          <p> </p>
                          <blockquote type="cite"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(47,47,47)">Luckily,
                              many voting methods are can effectively
                              prevent vote-splitting. As it turns out,
                              when voters can weigh in on each candidate
                              individually, when all ballot data is
                              counted, and when voters are able to show
                              equal preference, vote-splitting can be
                              eliminated. All voting methods which do
                              this pass the</span><span
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;font-size:16px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(47,47,47)"> </span><a
                              rel="noopener"
href="https://electowiki.org/wiki/Equal_Vote_Criterion"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:bold;font-style:normal;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:underline;font-size:16px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(42,162,179)"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Equal
                              Vote Criterion</a><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(47,47,47)">,
                              including </span><a rel="noopener"
                              href="https://www.starvoting.us/star"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:bold;font-style:normal;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:underline;font-size:16px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(42,162,179)"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">STAR
                              Voting</a><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(47,47,47)">,...</span></blockquote>
                          <br>
                          The "Equal Vote Criterion" is just  propaganda
                          nonsense:   <a
href="https://electowiki.org/wiki/Equal_Vote_Criterion" target="_blank"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://electowiki.org/wiki/Equal_Vote_Criterion</a><br>
                          <blockquote type="cite"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(32,33,34)">The
                              Equal Vote Criterion or<span
                                style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></span><a
                              rel="nofollow"
                              href="https://www.equal.vote/theequalvote"
style="text-decoration:none;background-image:url("");background-size:0.857em;padding-right:1em;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(51,102,204);background-position:right center;background-repeat:no-repeat no-repeat"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Equality
                              Criterion</a><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(32,33,34)"><span
                                style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span>is
                              a<span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></span><a
href="https://electowiki.org/wiki/Voting_system_criterion"
                              title="Voting system criterion"
style="text-decoration:none;background-image:none;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(51,102,204)"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">voting
                              method criterion</a><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(32,33,34)"><span
                                style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span>which
                              requires that a voting method ensure that
                              every voter may cast a vote which is as
                              powerful as a vote cast by any other
                              voter. Voting methods which pass the Equal
                              Vote Criterion do not exhibit<span
                                style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></span><a
href="https://electowiki.org/wiki/Vote-splitting" title="Vote-splitting"
style="text-decoration:none;background-image:none;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(51,102,204)"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vote-splitting</a><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(32,33,34)"><span
                                style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span>or
                              the "Spoiler Effect," ensuring that every
                              vote can cast an<span
                                style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></span><a
href="https://electowiki.org/wiki/Equally_Weighted_Vote"
                              title="Equally Weighted Vote"
style="text-decoration:none;background-image:none;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(51,102,204)"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">equally
                              weighted vote</a><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(32,33,34)">.</span></blockquote>
                          <blockquote type="cite"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(32,33,34)">Choose-One
                              Plurality Voting (First Past the Post) and
                              Instant Runoff Voting (often referred to
                              as Ranked Choice Voting) do not satisfy
                              the Equal Vote Criterion.</span></blockquote>
                          <br>
                          This is just dishonest blather. If anything
                          meets this very vague and confused "criterion"
                          IRV (aka Hare) certainly does.  <br>
                          <br>
                          The classic scenario that motivated some
                          people get negative about Hare (and also
                          methods like Min-Max Margins):<br>
                          <br>
                          49 Bush<br>
                          24 Gore<br>
                          27 Nader>Gore<br>
                          <p>Gore>Bush 51-49,   Bush>Nader 49-27,
                            Nader>Gore 27-24.<br>
                            <br>
                            Hare eliminates Gore and elects Bush, so the
                            Nader voters whose Gore> Bush preference
                            was strong had incentive to use the
                            Compromise <br>
                            strategy and vote Gore>Nader ("betraying"
                            their sincere favourite).  If the method was
                            Approval they could have approved both Nader
                            and<br>
                            Gore, preventing the election of Bush
                            without having to vote their sincere
                            favorite below equal-top.<br>
                            <br>
                            But in this type of scenario STAR does no
                            better than Hare. The Nader voters would
                            have incentive to give Nader zero points.<br>
                            <br>
                            "Traditionally" Hare's  vulnerability to
                            Push-over strategy has said to be a result
                            of it's failure of Mono-raise.  But STAR is
                            much more vulnerable<br>
                            to Push-over.<br>
                            <br>
                            Say you are sure that your favourite will
                            make the final two. In that case then you
                            have incentive to give every candidate that
                            you are sure your<br>
                            favourite can beat 4 or 5 stars.  If 5 stars
                            then you are relying on you favourite
                            winning the runoff without your help, but if
                            4 stars then you might<br>
                            fail to get one of the predicted sure-loser
                            turkeys into the final.<br>
                            <br>
                            In a Hare Push-over strategy scenario, the
                            strategists rely on their favourite winning
                            the runoff against their own votes, i.e.
                            with their votes supporting<br>
                            the turkey against their favourite. This
                            makes it much more risky (more likely to
                            backfire) and difficult to coordinate than
                            is the case with STAR.<br>
                            <br>
                            The equal-vote site has a link to a quite ok
                            video on the Favorite Betrayal Criterion.  I
                            find that weird and misleading, because STAR
                            badly fails FBC.<br>
                            <a
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtKAScORevQ" target="_blank"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtKAScORevQ</a><br>
                            <br>
                            From <a href="https://www.starvoting.org/"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.starvoting.org/</a><br>
                          </p>
                          <blockquote type="cite">
                            <h2
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:1rem;font-family:Montserrat,sans-serif;font-weight:700;line-height:1.2;font-size:2.25rem;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(2,106,134)">Why
                              STAR Voting? </h2>
                            <p
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:1rem;line-height:1.7;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Voting
                                reform is the keystone. A single cause
                                with the potential to empower us to be
                                more effective on every other issue we
                                care about. </span></p>
                            <ul
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:1rem;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(0,0,0)">
                              <li
style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">
                                <p
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:1rem;line-height:1.7;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><a
                                    rel="noopener"
href="https://www.starvoting.org/strategic_voting"
style="box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration:none;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(42,162,179)"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">Honesty is
                                    the best strategy. Strategic voting
                                    is not incentivized.</a></p>
                              </li>
                              <li
style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">
                                <p
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:1rem;line-height:1.7;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><a
                                    rel="noopener"
href="https://www.starvoting.org/how_to_vote"
style="box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration:none;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(42,162,179)"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">Even if your
                                    favorite can’t win, your vote helps
                                    prevent your worst case scenario.</a></p>
                              </li>
                              <li
style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">
                                <p
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:1rem;line-height:1.7;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><a
                                    rel="noopener"
href="https://www.starvoting.org/accuracy"
style="box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration:none;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(42,162,179)"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">Highly
                                    accurate, no matter how many
                                    candidates/parties are in the race.</a></p>
                              </li>
                            </ul>
                          </blockquote>
                          <br>
                          I'm not sure exactly what "accurate" is
                          supposed to mean, but I refute the suggestion
                          that these claims are more true of STAR than
                          they are of Hare.<br>
                          <br>
                          In the poll I will vote STAR below Hare and
                          Approval and all the Condorcet methods.</div>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <div lang="x-unicode"><br>
                          <p>Chris<br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                          </p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
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