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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I also nominated STAR earlier but I think I'm blocked by Michael. Someone might want to convey the point below to him as well (about overestimating the influence of this poll). I also previously nominated Smith//Score (elect the score winner of the Smith set), so if someone is able to get that added, I would be grateful.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Toby</div><div><br></div>
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On Saturday, 6 April 2024 at 16:44:00 BST, Michael Garman <michael.garman@rankthevote.us> wrote:
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<div><div id="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148"><div><div>>> <span style="font-family: -apple-system, helveticaneue; border-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">what if it finishes low here? That would be worse for the Eugene initiative than not including it.</span><br clear="none"><br clear="all">I thought this poll was meant to be an objective search for the truth, not a cudgel to advance an agenda. I also think you’re vastly overestimating the influence this little poll is going to have. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>In any case, I’m nominating STAR. Someone please relay the message to Ossipoff as I believe he’s blocked me. </div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34);"><span style="font-family: New; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Michael J. Garman | he/him</span><br clear="none"></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34);"><span style="font-family: New; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Digital & Campus Organizer | Rank the Vote</span></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34);"><a shape="rect" href="https://calendly.com/michael-j-garman" style="font-family: New;" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Book a meeting with me!</a><span style="font-family: New; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br clear="none"></span></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34);"><span style="font-family: New; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">(401) 644-4108 | </span><a shape="rect" href="mailto:michael.garman@rankthevote.us" style="font-family: New; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(17, 85, 204);" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">michael.garman@rankthevote.us</a><br clear="none"></p></div></div></div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"><div class="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148gmail_quote"><div id="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqtfd12489" class="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqt3786912867"><div dir="ltr" class="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 2:16 PM Michael Ossipoff <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);" class="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148gmail_quote"><div id="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqtfd04117" class="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqt3786912867"><div><br clear="none"></div><div>This is to acknowledge the nominations of Smith//Default-Approval, Smith//Explicit-Approval, Margins-Sorted Approval, & Smith//DAC.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I’d say include STAR, because that’s what its advocates would want. …or would they? Its enactment is going to be voted-on in Eugene next month, & what if it finishes low here? That would be worse for the Eugene initiative than not including it.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Of course showing voters about methods’ popularity here is my stated-purpose for the poll, & the fact that it’s about to be voted on for enactment would seem to suggest including it. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>But the advocates of STAR have been working hard, completely in good faith, & STAR is a lot better than IRV. Those are two good reasons to let EqualVote decide on STAR’s inclusion in the poll.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I’ll ask the EqualVote group, & go by what they say.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>(In fact STAR, while more complicated than Approval, has nothing like the amount of count-complexity of Condorcet, or the consequent amount of count-insecurity & count-fraud vulnerability. I personally don’t propose STAR, because I regard it as an inbetween compromise between Approval & the ranked-methods, & I want the absolutely minimal. (I only propose Condorcet to jurisdictions where people insist on rankings.) …but, by my simplicity-standard, STAR scores high, even though I don’t propose it.)</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>So the nominations list so-far is now (listed in order of nomination):</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Approval</div><div>RP(wv)</div><div>Schulze</div><div>IRV</div><div>Plurality</div><div>MinMax(wv)</div><div>Black</div><div>Baldwin </div><div>Benham</div><div>Woodall</div><div>Schwartz-Woodall</div><div>Smith//Approval (of all ranked)</div><div>Smith//Approval (of what is specified)</div><div>Margin-Sorted Approval</div><div>Smith//DAC</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div><div id="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqtfd92792" class="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqt3786912867"><br clear="none"></div><div class="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148gmail_quote"><div id="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqtfd73921" class="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqt3786912867"><div dir="ltr" class="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 04:03 Chris Benham <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);" class="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148gmail_quote"><div id="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqtfd70687" class="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqt3786912867"><u></u>
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I would like to nominate several methods.<br clear="none">
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Smith//Approval (Ranking):<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Voters rank from the top only those candidates they "approve",
equal-ranking allowed,<br clear="none">
the most approved member of the voted Smith set wins.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Smith//Approval (specified cutoff):<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Voters rank from the top however many candidates they wish and can
also specify an approval<br clear="none">
cutoff/threshold. Default approval is only for candidates ranked
below no others (i.e. ranked top<br clear="none">
or equal-top).<br clear="none">
The most approved member of the Smith set wins.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Margins Sorted Approval (specified cutoff):<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Voters rank from the top however many candidates they wish and can
also specify an approval<br clear="none">
cutoff/threshold. Default approval is only for candidates ranked
below no others (i.e. ranked top<br clear="none">
or equal-top).<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
A Forrest Simmons invention. Candidates are listed in approval
score order and if any adjacent pairs<br clear="none">
are pairwise out of order then this is corrected by flipping the
out-of-order pair with the smallest<br clear="none">
margin. If there is a tie for this we flip the less approved pair.
Repeat until there are no adjacent pairs<br clear="none">
of candidates that are pairwise out of order, then elect the
highest-ordered candidate.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Smith//:DAC<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Voters rank from the top however many candidates they wish,
equal-ranking allowed.<br clear="none">
Eliminate candidates not in the Smith set and then apply
Woodall's Descending Acquiescing Coalitions method.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
There is a method I hate that is apparently contending in the real
world: "STAR". Given the stated purpose of <br clear="none">
this poll, is there a case for including it?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Chris Benham<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</p></div><blockquote type="cite"><div id="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqtfd48441" class="ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqt3786912867"><b style="font-family: New; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; word-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Michael
Ossipoff</b><span style="font-family: New; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); display: inline !important;"><span style="font-family:New;"> </span></span><a shape="rect" href="mailto:election-methods%40lists.electorama.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BEM%5D%20Poll%20on%20voting-systems%2C%0A%20to%20inform%20voters%20in%20upcoming%20enactment-elections&In-Reply-To=%3CCAOKDY5BkSGJkX%3D7zWXBr2t1SBNVMNj96wm-T8ubvr_wGM5h51w%40mail.gmail.com%3E" title="[EM] Poll on voting-systems, to inform voters in upcoming enactment-elections" style="font-family: New; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; word-spacing: 0px;" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">email9648742
at gmail.com</a><br clear="none" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: New; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">
<i style="font-family: New; font-size: medium; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; word-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Wed
Apr 3 22:13:28 PDT 2024</i><span style="font-family: New; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); display: inline !important;"></span>
<p style="font-family: New; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; word-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br clear="none">
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<pre style="font-style: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; word-spacing: 0px; font-family: monospace; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">EM used to do a lot of polls, but now never does. So I wouldn’t propose
one, if it weren’t for the fact that, this year, the voters of at least two
states are going to vote on whether to enact a certain voting-system.
It seems to me—tell me if I’m wrong—that those people have a right to know
how people familiar with voting-systems feel about the relative merits of
some voting-systems.
So, though I claim that polls are valuable for demonstrating the experience
of using the voting systems, & how they work, & what they’ll do—& are
therefore useful & worthwhile for their own sake—this poll that I now
propose isn’t a poll for its own sake.
It is, as I said, proposed for the important practical purpose of letting
the voters in the upcoming enactment-elections know how we feel about the
relative merits of some voting-systems, including the one that they’re
about to vote on the enactment of.
The voting-method for the poll:
It seems to me that Schulze is the most popular ranked voting-system, among
the people at EM.
…& it seems to me that the last time we voted on EM’s collective favorite
voting-system, Approval won.
Those seem the top-two, in EM popularity.</pre></div>
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