<div dir="auto"><br clear="all">Ossipoff really shouldn’t be running this poll if he blocks so many people. <br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Michael J. Garman | he/him</span><br></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Digital & Campus Organizer | Rank the Vote</span></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href="https://calendly.com/michael-j-garman" style="font-family:"Times New Roman";white-space:pre-wrap" target="_blank">Book a meeting with me!</a><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0)">(401) 644-4108 | </span><a href="mailto:michael.garman@rankthevote.us" style="font-family:"Times New Roman";white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">michael.garman@rankthevote.us</a><br></p></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 10:44 PM Toby Pereira <<a href="mailto:tdp201b@yahoo.co.uk">tdp201b@yahoo.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></div>
        <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">I also nominated STAR earlier but I think I'm blocked by Michael. Someone might want to convey the point below to him as well (about overestimating the influence of this poll). I also previously nominated Smith//Score (elect the score winner of the Smith set), so if someone is able to get that added, I would be grateful.</div></div></div><div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Toby</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br></div>
        
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            <div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
                
                <div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">
                        On Saturday, 6 April 2024 at 16:44:00 BST, Michael Garman <<a href="mailto:michael.garman@rankthevote.us" target="_blank" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">michael.garman@rankthevote.us</a>> wrote:
                    </div>
                    <div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br></div>
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                <div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div id="m_5391179354367568749ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">>> <span style="font-family:-apple-system,helveticaneue;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);color:rgb(0,0,0)">what if it finishes low here? That would be worse for the Eugene initiative than not including it.</span><br clear="none"><br clear="all">I thought this poll was meant to be an objective search for the truth, not a cudgel to advance an agenda. I also think you’re vastly overestimating the influence this little poll is going to have. </div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">In any case, I’m nominating STAR. Someone please relay the message to Ossipoff as I believe he’s blocked me. </div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-family:New;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Michael J. Garman | he/him</span><br clear="none"></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-family:New;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Digital & Campus Organizer | Rank the Vote</span></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a shape="rect" href="https://calendly.com/michael-j-garman" style="font-family:New" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Book a meeting with me!</a><span style="font-family:New;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br clear="none"></span></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-family:New;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0)">(401) 644-4108 | </span><a shape="rect" href="mailto:michael.garman@rankthevote.us" style="font-family:New;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(17,85,204)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">michael.garman@rankthevote.us</a><br clear="none"></p></div></div></div></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div id="m_5391179354367568749ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqtfd12489" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 2:16 PM Michael Ossipoff <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div id="m_5391179354367568749ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqtfd04117" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">This is to acknowledge the nominations of Smith//Default-Approval, Smith//Explicit-Approval, Margins-Sorted Approval, & Smith//DAC.</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">I’d say include STAR, because that’s what its advocates would want.  …or would they? Its enactment is going to be voted-on in Eugene next month, & what if it finishes low here? That would be worse for the Eugene initiative than not including it.</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Of course showing voters about methods’ popularity here is my stated-purpose for the poll, & the fact that it’s about to be voted on for enactment would seem to suggest including it. </div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">But the advocates of STAR have been working hard, completely in good faith, & STAR is a lot better than IRV. Those are two good reasons to let EqualVote decide on STAR’s inclusion in the poll.</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">I’ll ask the EqualVote group, & go by what they say.</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">(In fact STAR, while more complicated than Approval, has nothing like the amount of count-complexity of Condorcet, or the consequent amount of count-insecurity & count-fraud vulnerability. I personally don’t propose STAR, because I regard it as an inbetween compromise between Approval & the ranked-methods, & I want the absolutely minimal. (I only propose Condorcet to jurisdictions where people insist on rankings.) …but, by my simplicity-standard, STAR scores high, even though I don’t propose it.)</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">So the nominations list so-far is now (listed in order of nomination):</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Approval</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">RP(wv)</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Schulze</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">IRV</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Plurality</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">MinMax(wv)</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Black</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Baldwin </div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Benham</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Woodall</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Schwartz-Woodall</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Smith//Approval (of all ranked)</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Smith//Approval (of what is specified)</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Margin-Sorted Approval</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Smith//DAC</div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div id="m_5391179354367568749ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqtfd92792" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div id="m_5391179354367568749ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqtfd73921" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 04:03 Chris Benham <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div id="m_5391179354367568749ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqtfd70687" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><u style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></u>

  

    
  
  </div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div id="m_5391179354367568749ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqtfd39730" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">
    <p style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none">
      I would like to nominate several methods.<br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      Smith//Approval (Ranking):<br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      Voters rank from the top only those candidates they "approve",
      equal-ranking allowed,<br clear="none">
      the most approved member of the voted Smith set wins.<br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      Smith//Approval (specified cutoff):<br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      Voters rank from the top however many candidates they wish and can
      also specify an approval<br clear="none">
      cutoff/threshold. Default approval is only for candidates ranked
      below no others (i.e. ranked top<br clear="none">
      or equal-top).<br clear="none">
      The most approved member of the Smith set wins.<br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      Margins Sorted Approval (specified cutoff):<br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      Voters rank from the top however many candidates they wish and can
      also specify an approval<br clear="none">
      cutoff/threshold. Default approval is only for candidates ranked
      below no others (i.e. ranked top<br clear="none">
      or equal-top).<br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      A Forrest Simmons invention. Candidates are listed in approval
      score order and if any adjacent pairs<br clear="none">
      are pairwise out of order then this is corrected by flipping the
      out-of-order pair with the smallest<br clear="none">
      margin. If there is a tie for this we flip the less approved pair.
      Repeat until there are no adjacent pairs<br clear="none">
      of candidates that are pairwise out of order, then elect the
      highest-ordered candidate.<br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      Smith//:DAC<br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      Voters rank from the top however many candidates they wish,
      equal-ranking allowed.<br clear="none">
      Eliminate candidates not in the Smith set and then apply
      Woodall's Descending Acquiescing Coalitions method.<br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      There is a method I hate that is apparently contending in the real
      world: "STAR". Given the stated purpose of <br clear="none">
      this poll, is there a case for including it?<br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      Chris Benham<br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      <br clear="none">
      </p></div><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div id="m_5391179354367568749ydp6bdca0cdyiv8564971148yqtfd48441" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><b style="font-family:New;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Michael
          Ossipoff</b><span style="font-family:New;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:New"> </span></span><a shape="rect" href="mailto:election-methods%40lists.electorama.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BEM%5D%20Poll%20on%20voting-systems%2C%0A%20to%20inform%20voters%20in%20upcoming%20enactment-elections&In-Reply-To=%3CCAOKDY5BkSGJkX%3D7zWXBr2t1SBNVMNj96wm-T8ubvr_wGM5h51w%40mail.gmail.com%3E" title="[EM] Poll on voting-systems, to inform voters in upcoming enactment-elections" style="font-family:New;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">email9648742
          at gmail.com</a><br clear="none" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:New;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">
        <i style="font-family:New;font-size:medium;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Wed
          Apr 3 22:13:28 PDT 2024</i><span style="font-family:New;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(0,0,0)"></span>
        <p style="font-family:New;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br clear="none">
        </p>
        <hr style="font-family:New;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
        <pre style="font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;font-family:monospace;color:rgb(0,0,0)">EM used to do a lot of polls, but now never does. So I wouldn’t propose
one, if it weren’t for the fact that, this year, the voters of at least two
states are going to vote on whether to enact a certain voting-system.

It seems to me—tell me if I’m wrong—that those people have a right to know
how people familiar with voting-systems feel about the relative merits of
some voting-systems.

So, though I claim that polls are valuable for demonstrating the experience
of using the voting systems, & how they work, & what they’ll do—& are
therefore useful & worthwhile for their own sake—this poll that I now
propose isn’t a poll for its own sake.

It is, as I said, proposed for the important practical purpose of letting
the voters in the upcoming enactment-elections know how we feel about the
relative merits of some voting-systems, including the one that they’re
about to vote on the enactment of.

The voting-method for the poll:

It seems to me that Schulze is the most popular ranked voting-system, among
the people at EM.

…& it seems to me that the last time we voted on EM’s collective favorite
voting-system, Approval won.

Those seem the top-two, in EM popularity.</pre></div>
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    <p style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></p>
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</div></div></div>----<br clear="none">Election-Methods mailing list - see <a shape="rect" href="https://electorama.com/em" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">https://electorama.com/em</a> for list info<div id="m_5391179354367568749ydp6bdca0cdyqtfd00390" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div></div>
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