<div dir="auto">>> <span style="font-family:-apple-system,helveticaneue;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0);border-color:rgb(0,0,0);color:rgb(0,0,0)">what if it finishes low here? That would be worse for the Eugene initiative than not including it.</span><br><br clear="all">I thought this poll was meant to be an objective search for the truth, not a cudgel to advance an agenda. I also think you’re vastly overestimating the influence this little poll is going to have. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">In any case, I’m nominating STAR. Someone please relay the message to Ossipoff as I believe he’s blocked me. </div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Michael J. Garman | he/him</span><br></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Digital & Campus Organizer | Rank the Vote</span></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href="https://calendly.com/michael-j-garman" style="font-family:"Times New Roman";white-space:pre-wrap" target="_blank">Book a meeting with me!</a><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0)">(401) 644-4108 | </span><a href="mailto:michael.garman@rankthevote.us" style="font-family:"Times New Roman";white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">michael.garman@rankthevote.us</a><br></p></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 2:16 PM Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This is to acknowledge the nominations of Smith//Default-Approval, Smith//Explicit-Approval, Margins-Sorted Approval, & Smith//DAC.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I’d say include STAR, because that’s what its advocates would want. …or would they? Its enactment is going to be voted-on in Eugene next month, & what if it finishes low here? That would be worse for the Eugene initiative than not including it.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Of course showing voters about methods’ popularity here is my stated-purpose for the poll, & the fact that it’s about to be voted on for enactment would seem to suggest including it. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But the advocates of STAR have been working hard, completely in good faith, & STAR is a lot better than IRV. Those are two good reasons to let EqualVote decide on STAR’s inclusion in the poll.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I’ll ask the EqualVote group, & go by what they say.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">(In fact STAR, while more complicated than Approval, has nothing like the amount of count-complexity of Condorcet, or the consequent amount of count-insecurity & count-fraud vulnerability. I personally don’t propose STAR, because I regard it as an inbetween compromise between Approval & the ranked-methods, & I want the absolutely minimal. (I only propose Condorcet to jurisdictions where people insist on rankings.) …but, by my simplicity-standard, STAR scores high, even though I don’t propose it.)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So the nominations list so-far is now (listed in order of nomination):</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Approval</div><div dir="auto">RP(wv)</div><div dir="auto">Schulze</div><div dir="auto">IRV</div><div dir="auto">Plurality</div><div dir="auto">MinMax(wv)</div><div dir="auto">Black</div><div dir="auto">Baldwin </div><div dir="auto">Benham</div><div dir="auto">Woodall</div><div dir="auto">Schwartz-Woodall</div><div dir="auto">Smith//Approval (of all ranked)</div><div dir="auto">Smith//Approval (of what is specified)</div><div dir="auto">Margin-Sorted Approval</div><div dir="auto">Smith//DAC</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 04:03 Chris Benham <<a href="mailto:cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au" target="_blank">cbenhamau@yahoo.com.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><u></u>
<div>
<p><br>
I would like to nominate several methods.<br>
<br>
Smith//Approval (Ranking):<br>
<br>
Voters rank from the top only those candidates they "approve",
equal-ranking allowed,<br>
the most approved member of the voted Smith set wins.<br>
<br>
Smith//Approval (specified cutoff):<br>
<br>
Voters rank from the top however many candidates they wish and can
also specify an approval<br>
cutoff/threshold. Default approval is only for candidates ranked
below no others (i.e. ranked top<br>
or equal-top).<br>
The most approved member of the Smith set wins.<br>
<br>
Margins Sorted Approval (specified cutoff):<br>
<br>
Voters rank from the top however many candidates they wish and can
also specify an approval<br>
cutoff/threshold. Default approval is only for candidates ranked
below no others (i.e. ranked top<br>
or equal-top).<br>
<br>
A Forrest Simmons invention. Candidates are listed in approval
score order and if any adjacent pairs<br>
are pairwise out of order then this is corrected by flipping the
out-of-order pair with the smallest<br>
margin. If there is a tie for this we flip the less approved pair.
Repeat until there are no adjacent pairs<br>
of candidates that are pairwise out of order, then elect the
highest-ordered candidate.<br>
<br>
Smith//:DAC<br>
<br>
Voters rank from the top however many candidates they wish,
equal-ranking allowed.<br>
Eliminate candidates not in the Smith set and then apply
Woodall's Descending Acquiescing Coalitions method.<br>
<br>
There is a method I hate that is apparently contending in the real
world: "STAR". Given the stated purpose of <br>
this poll, is there a case for including it?<br>
<br>
Chris Benham<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p><blockquote type="cite"><b style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Michael
Ossipoff</b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span><a href="mailto:election-methods%40lists.electorama.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BEM%5D%20Poll%20on%20voting-systems%2C%0A%20to%20inform%20voters%20in%20upcoming%20enactment-elections&In-Reply-To=%3CCAOKDY5BkSGJkX%3D7zWXBr2t1SBNVMNj96wm-T8ubvr_wGM5h51w%40mail.gmail.com%3E" title="[EM] Poll on voting-systems, to inform voters in upcoming enactment-elections" style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal" target="_blank">email9648742
at gmail.com</a><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">
<i style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Wed
Apr 3 22:13:28 PDT 2024</i><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(0,0,0)"></span>
<p style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</p>
<hr style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;font-family:monospace;color:rgb(0,0,0)">EM used to do a lot of polls, but now never does. So I wouldn’t propose
one, if it weren’t for the fact that, this year, the voters of at least two
states are going to vote on whether to enact a certain voting-system.
It seems to me—tell me if I’m wrong—that those people have a right to know
how people familiar with voting-systems feel about the relative merits of
some voting-systems.
So, though I claim that polls are valuable for demonstrating the experience
of using the voting systems, & how they work, & what they’ll do—& are
therefore useful & worthwhile for their own sake—this poll that I now
propose isn’t a poll for its own sake.
It is, as I said, proposed for the important practical purpose of letting
the voters in the upcoming enactment-elections know how we feel about the
relative merits of some voting-systems, including the one that they’re
about to vote on the enactment of.
The voting-method for the poll:
It seems to me that Schulze is the most popular ranked voting-system, among
the people at EM.
…& it seems to me that the last time we voted on EM’s collective favorite
voting-system, Approval won.
Those seem the top-two, in EM popularity.</pre>
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<p></p>
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