<div dir="auto">Your next choice after your 1st choice is your 2nd-choice, who is no longer there when your 1st choice is determined to lose.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Your next remaining choice at that time is Worst, your 3rd choice. That wasn’t FairVote’s promise.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">EqualVote has been “out there doing the work”. …but without all the wealth that did the work for FairVote. EqualVote are a newer organization, & therefore haven’t been “doing the work” for as long.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I merely question the honesty & morality of how FairVote has been “doing the work”.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:08 Michael Garman <<a href="mailto:michael.garman@rankthevote.us">michael.garman@rankthevote.us</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">“Our cult” are the only people actually out there doing the work. Try talking to voters instead of hiding behind your keyboard sometime. I recommend it :)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Show me where FairVote explicitly states “second choice” rather than “next choice.”</div><div dir="auto"><br clear="all"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span>On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:59 PM Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" target="_blank">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><br></p></div></div></div></div><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="auto">Evidently it’s necessary to repeat that, no, that isn’t what FairVote promises. They promise that your ballot will count toward your 2nd-choice. Not the same thing. Your ballot, & its 2nd-choice ranking of your 2nd-choice didn’t help your 2nd choice.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Your last remaining choice? Undeniably your last remaining choice WINS, because your 3rd choice is the only remaining one when all of your other choices have lost.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Congratulations, you have the election of your last remaining choice !!!<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">…by your strained dishonest argument.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Your cult isn’t part of the electoral-reform movement.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The leaders of several single-winner-reform organizations met in New Orleans, & in that meeting, some of them called Rob Richie on the lie. Richie promised to stop telling the lie in his promotion of RCV. …but soon resumed doing so.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">How do you want me to prove it. It was told to me by someone who was there. Sara Wolk, the Director of the EqualVote Coalition.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Shall I ask her for the date of the meeting? I will. Shall I ask her for the names of the other participants too? I’ll do that too.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">We wouldn’t want to lie, would we :-)</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 10:38 Michael Garman <<a href="mailto:michael.garman@rankthevote.us" target="_blank">michael.garman@rankthevote.us</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="ltr">Your ballot helps your highest remaining choice. That's what FairVote promises. Back when this conversation was active in December, you cheerfully promised to immediately deliver receipts substantiating your claims of deception and failed to do so.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:33 PM Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" target="_blank">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="auto">Call it what you want, but Worst wins because you ranked Best 1st instead of ranking Good 1st.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Contrary to FairVote’s promise, your ballot doesn’t help your 2nd choice when your favorite is unable to win, because your 2nd choice is no longer there.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">FairVote’s promise is an intentional false-statement. We have a word for intentional false statements. It’s called a lie.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">When a lie is used to sell a product to a trusting buyer, we have a word for that too. It’s called fraud.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 08:07 Greg Dennis <<a href="mailto:greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org" target="_blank">greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="ltr">But if we're being precise, Best could never be "eliminated" in your scenario. There would be only two candidates left, and so the tallying would necessarily end in that round with two candidates. Anyone who ranked Best>Good>Worst would have their ballot counted towards Best in the final round, after Good is eliminated. It would never be counted towards Worst.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 8:50 PM Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" target="_blank">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="auto">Greg—</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">In my example, I said that first Good gets eliminated, & then Best gets eliminated.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So all that remains is Worst.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I made a typo in my post. I meant to say that the Good-supporters either didn’t vote a 2nd choice, or else their 2nd-choice transfer was to Worst.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">…but, when wrote that, I accidentally said “Best-supporters”, when I meant “Good-supporters”.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg Dennis <<a href="mailto:greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org" target="_blank">greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="auto"><div>Hold on a second, if Good gets eliminated, there are only two candidates (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two with the most votes wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in the final round -- it is never counted for "Worst."<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 4, 2024, 5:15 PM Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" target="_blank">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">I
said:<span style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><span style="font-family:"Courier New""> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">No,
it [your ballot] doesn't[count for your 2<sup style="font-family:"Courier New"">nd</sup> choice] , unless your
2nd choice is still there. Oops !!! You &<span style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Richie
forgot to include the word "Maybe"<span style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">…<span style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Michael
Garman said:<span style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">…<span style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Fine…it
counts for your next highest choice still in the running. Which is<span style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">also
a reasonable interpretation of the “next choice” language you cite.<span style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Satisfied?<span style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">…<span style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Does that person have any idea what he’s saying?</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><span style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Say the election is between Best,
Good, &Worst. <span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">You rank Best>Good>Worst.<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Good gets eliminated first, &
then Best gets eliminated, & either hir ballots don’t have a 2<sup style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">nd</sup>
choice, or hir transfers go to Worst. According to our friend here, now Good is
no longer your 2<sup style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">nd</sup> choice. The elimination of Good makes Worst your
2<sup style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">nd</sup> choice, & so FairVote’s promise is kept:<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span>Your 2<sup style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">nd</sup> choice, Worst is elected
!!<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Oh, but wait, it gets even better:<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Worst isn’t only your 2<sup style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">nd</sup>
choice now:<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span>By our IRVist friend’s
definition of “choice”, now Worst becomes your 1<sup style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">st</sup> choice (because
he’s the only remaining candidate). <span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Congratulations !! You’ve elected
your 1<sup style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">st</sup> choice, Worst !!!~<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Ladies & Gentlemen of the jury:
I present to you exhibit B, further confirmation of the universal astounding
dishonesty of the promotion of RCV.<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:12.8px"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><b>Greg Dennis, Ph.D. :: Policy Director</b><div>Voter Choice Massachusetts</div><div><br></div><div>e :: <a href="mailto:greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org" target="_blank">greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org</a><br><div>p :: <a href="tel:617.835.9161" value="+16177848993" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">617.835.9161</a><br></div></div><div>w :: <a href="https://www.voterchoicema.org/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">voterchoicema.org</a></div><div><br></div><div>:: Follow us on <a href="https://www.facebook.com/yeson2rcv" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">Facebook</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/yeson2rcv" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">Twitter</a> ::</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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Election-Methods mailing list - see <a href="https://electorama.com/em" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://electorama.com/em</a> for list info<br>
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