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<p><font face="Comic Sans MS">Mr. Ossipoff, here's exactly what you
wrote at the start:<br>
</font></p>
<blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Say
the election is between Best,
Good, &Worst. <span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">You
rank Best>Good>Worst.<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Good
gets eliminated first, &
then Best gets eliminated ...<br>
</span></blockquote>
<p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><br>
Then Greg Dennis responded,<br>
</font></p>
<blockquote>... if Good gets eliminated, there are only two
candidates (Best and Worst) remaining, and whichever of those two
with the most votes wins. That sample ballot counts for "Best" in
the final round -- it is never counted for "Worst."</blockquote>
<p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><br>
Your response to THAT was irrelevant because he's correct. With
three candidates and no majority winner on the first choices
count, the lowest total is eliminated -- Good, in your example.<br>
<br>
That leaves only two candidates, as Mr. Dennis stated. One of
them (assumed) has more votes than the other -- a majority.
There's no second elimination. The election is over. Your vote
for Best was counted.<br>
<br>
Everything you posted after Mr. Dennis is about your other
topic.<br>
- Ken Bearman, Minneapolis MN<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>On 2/5/2024 1:21 PM, Michael Ossipoff wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAOKDY5Cym1FGNH5rMJ5WFew8ifmzuo6aycPCWmd9F2XX2DSc3w@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Your next choice after your 1st choice is your
2nd-choice, who is no longer there when your 1st choice is
determined to lose.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Your next remaining choice at that time is Worst,
your 3rd choice. That wasn’t FairVote’s promise.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">EqualVote has been “out there doing the work”.
…but without all the wealth that did the work for FairVote.
EqualVote are a newer organization, & therefore haven’t been
“doing the work” for as long.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I merely question the honesty & morality of
how FairVote has been “doing the work”.</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:08
Michael Garman <<a
href="mailto:michael.garman@rankthevote.us"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">michael.garman@rankthevote.us</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">“Our cult” are the only people actually out
there doing the work. Try talking to voters instead of
hiding behind your keyboard sometime. I recommend it :)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Show me where FairVote explicitly states
“second choice” rather than “next choice.”</div>
<div dir="auto"><br clear="all">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span>On
Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:59 PM Michael Ossipoff
<<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">email9648742@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="auto">Evidently it’s necessary to repeat
that, no, that isn’t what FairVote promises. They
promise that your ballot will count toward your
2nd-choice. Not the same thing. Your ballot, &
its 2nd-choice ranking of your 2nd-choice didn’t
help your 2nd choice.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Your last remaining choice? Undeniably
your last remaining choice WINS, because your 3rd
choice is the only remaining one when all of your
other choices have lost.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Congratulations, you have the election
of your last remaining choice !!!<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">…by your strained dishonest argument.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Your cult isn’t part of the
electoral-reform movement.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The leaders of several
single-winner-reform organizations met in New
Orleans, & in that meeting, some of them called
Rob Richie on the lie. Richie promised to stop
telling the lie in his promotion of RCV. …but soon
resumed doing so.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">How do you want me to prove it. It was
told to me by someone who was there. Sara Wolk, the
Director of the EqualVote Coalition.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Shall I ask her for the date of the
meeting? I will. Shall I ask her for the names of
the other participants too? I’ll do that too.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">We wouldn’t want to lie, would we :-)</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 5,
2024 at 10:38 Michael Garman <<a
href="mailto:michael.garman@rankthevote.us"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">michael.garman@rankthevote.us</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">Your ballot helps your highest
remaining choice. That's what FairVote
promises. Back when this conversation was
active in December, you cheerfully promised to
immediately deliver receipts substantiating
your claims of deception and failed to do so.</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb
5, 2024 at 7:33 PM Michael Ossipoff <<a
href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">email9648742@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="auto">Call it what you want, but
Worst wins because you ranked Best 1st
instead of ranking Good 1st.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Contrary to FairVote’s
promise, your ballot doesn’t help your 2nd
choice when your favorite is unable to
win, because your 2nd choice is no longer
there.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">FairVote’s promise is an
intentional false-statement. We have a
word for intentional false statements.
It’s called a lie.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">When a lie is used to sell a
product to a trusting buyer, we have a
word for that too. It’s called fraud.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 08:07 Greg Dennis
<<a
href="mailto:greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">But if we're being
precise, Best could never be
"eliminated" in your scenario. There
would be only two candidates left,
and so the tallying would
necessarily end in that round
with two candidates. Anyone who
ranked Best>Good>Worst would
have their ballot counted towards
Best in the final round, after Good
is eliminated. It would never be
counted towards Worst.</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 8:50 PM
Michael Ossipoff <<a
href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">email9648742@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="auto">Greg—</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">In my example, I
said that first Good gets
eliminated, & then Best gets
eliminated.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">So all that
remains is Worst.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I made a typo in
my post. I meant to say that the
Good-supporters either didn’t
vote a 2nd choice, or else their
2nd-choice transfer was to
Worst.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">…but, when wrote
that, I accidentally said
“Best-supporters”, when I meant
“Good-supporters”.</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Sun,
Feb 4, 2024 at 17:18 Greg
Dennis <<a
href="mailto:greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Hold on a second, if
Good gets eliminated,
there are only two
candidates (Best and
Worst) remaining, and
whichever of those two
with the most votes
wins. That sample ballot
counts for "Best" in the
final round -- it is
never counted for
"Worst."<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On
Sun, Feb 4, 2024,
5:15 PM Michael
Ossipoff <<a
href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">email9648742@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">I
said:<span
style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""> </span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">No,
it [your
ballot]
doesn't[count
for your 2<sup
style="font-family:"Courier New"">nd</sup> choice] , unless
your
2nd choice is
still there.
Oops !!! You
&<span
style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Richie
forgot to
include the
word "Maybe"<span
style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">…<span
style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Michael
Garman said:<span
style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">…<span
style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Fine…it
counts for
your next
highest choice
still in the
running. Which
is<span
style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">also
a reasonable
interpretation
of the “next
choice”
language you
cite.<span
style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Satisfied?<span
style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">…<span
style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Does
that person
have any idea
what he’s
saying?</span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Say
the election
is between
Best,
Good,
&Worst. <span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">You
rank
Best>Good>Worst.<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Good
gets
eliminated
first, &
then Best gets
eliminated,
& either
hir ballots
don’t have a 2<sup
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">nd</sup>
choice, or hir
transfers go
to Worst.
According to
our friend
here, now Good
is
no longer your
2<sup
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">nd</sup> choice.
The
elimination of
Good makes
Worst your
2<sup
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">nd</sup> choice,
& so
FairVote’s
promise is
kept:<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span>Your 2<sup
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">nd</sup> choice,
Worst is
elected
!!<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Oh,
but wait, it
gets even
better:<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Worst
isn’t only
your 2<sup
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">nd</sup>
choice now:<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span>By our
IRVist
friend’s
definition of
“choice”, now
Worst becomes
your 1<sup
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">st</sup> choice
(because
he’s the only
remaining
candidate). <span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Congratulations
!! You’ve
elected
your 1<sup
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">st</sup> choice,
Worst !!!~<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">…<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Ladies
&
Gentlemen of
the jury:
I present to
you exhibit B,
further
confirmation
of the
universal
astounding
dishonesty of
the promotion
of RCV.<span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
----<br>
Election-Methods
mailing list - see <a
href="https://electorama.com/em" rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://electorama.com/em</a>
for list info<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
<span class="gmail_signature_prefix">--
</span><br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-size:12.8px">
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<div dir="ltr">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><b>Greg
Dennis, Ph.D.
:: Policy
Director</b>
<div>Voter
Choice
Massachusetts</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>e :: <a
href="mailto:greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">greg.dennis@voterchoicema.org</a><br>
<div>p :: <a
href="tel:617.835.9161" value="+16177848993"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">617.835.9161</a><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>w :: <a
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">----
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